Author Topic: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)  (Read 8733 times)

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2015, 05:05:20 PM »

Good info to have, I'll do whatever I can to SUPPORT  those that voted NO.
Why are you against this bill


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Offline Ezerharden

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2015, 06:07:05 AM »
Why are you against this bill


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1) He is against the extra $10. I can afford the current price every 5 years but $10 more every five years cuts too deeply into my Starbucks Coffee fund.
2) He objects to training certificates having a defined expiration date as opposed to the current trend of county clerks setting their own arbitrary dates, i.e one year.  (Not that those limits are legal now and only harass applicants, anyone should be able to take the course and then apply 20 years later).
3) Immediate disclosure provision scares him, if he does not disclose within one nanosecond he may be charged, because of course that is what the officer expects. (personally I agree this requirement needs to find it's way into the closest legislative garbage can)

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2015, 08:49:43 AM »

1) He is against the extra $10. I can afford the current price every 5 years but $10 more every five years cuts too deeply into my Starbucks Coffee fund.
2) He objects to training certificates having a defined expiration date as opposed to the current trend of county clerks setting their own arbitrary dates, i.e one year.  (Not that those limits are legal now and only harass applicants, anyone should be able to take the course and then apply 20 years later).
3) Immediate disclosure provision scares him, if he does not disclose within one nanosecond he may be charged, because of course that is what the officer expects. (personally I agree this requirement needs to find it's way into the closest legislative garbage can)
1 wow $10 is to much I spend about that much when me and my wife go to Starbucks together. I figure it is a little more but how many people will be able to get permits now that live in those communist counties
2 it makes it easier if they have a set expectation date. And makes it so if we want later we can make them last longer
3 the immediate disclosure does suck but with this passed we can go back and file a bill to change that. Isn't that what the government does to us all the time. Just play the game of well you accepted this much can we get another foot out of you


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Offline linux203

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2015, 08:42:38 PM »
Why are you against this bill


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2) He objects to training certificates having a defined expiration date as opposed to the current trend of county clerks setting their own arbitrary dates, i.e one year.  (Not that those limits are legal now and only harass applicants, anyone should be able to take the course and then apply 20 years later).

I think he would be still be upset if training expired after 10 years...

11 years from CPL class to getting the license, her carrying the way *I* think is right.... Who cares?
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline Jeff

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2015, 01:22:55 AM »
Wait 6 months for your mandatory gun board waste of time...., take a day off work to be sure you get there or else you get denied.  And did I mention waiting up to 6 months....  That happens to you, you won't be against it.

Also Is there an unresolved court case from 15 years ago that you had no idea about because you thought it was resolved but someone never closed it properly?.....SURPRISE, you find that out today after almost 6 months and now we reschedule you for 2 months down the road while you get that sorted out.  Could they have called you 3 months ago to let you know because they had all the information they needed then to give you time to sort it out....they COULD have, but NOPE.  SURPRISE!  (saw this happen several times when I had to go to my gun board redundant questioning)

Sure, maybe other places would have you come in to talk about that, but at least they will do it in  1/8th the time.

Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2015, 04:40:03 AM »

Wait 6 months for your mandatory gun board waste of time...., take a day off work to be sure you get there or else you get denied.  And did I mention waiting up to 6 months....  That happens to you, you won't be against it.

Also Is there an unresolved court case from 15 years ago that you had no idea about because you thought it was resolved but someone never closed it properly?.....SURPRISE, you find that out today after almost 6 months and now we reschedule you for 2 months down the road while you get that sorted out.  Could they have called you 3 months ago to let you know because they had all the information they needed then to give you time to sort it out....they COULD have, but NOPE.  SURPRISE!  (saw this happen several times when I had to go to my gun board redundant questioning)

Sure, maybe other places would have you come in to talk about that, but at least they will do it in  1/8th the time.
Exactly Jeff if you go though that or know somebody who has you probably support this bill


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Offline Super Trucker

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2015, 06:39:06 PM »
Wait 6 months for your mandatory gun board waste of time...., take a day off work to be sure you get there or else you get denied.  And did I mention waiting up to 6 months....  That happens to you, you won't be against it.

Also Is there an unresolved court case from 15 years ago that you had no idea about because you thought it was resolved but someone never closed it properly?.....SURPRISE, you find that out today after almost 6 months and now we reschedule you for 2 months down the road while you get that sorted out.  Could they have called you 3 months ago to let you know because they had all the information they needed then to give you time to sort it out....they COULD have, but NOPE.  SURPRISE!  (saw this happen several times when I had to go to my gun board redundant questioning)

Sure, maybe other places would have you come in to talk about that, but at least they will do it in  1/8th the time.
If that is what your county is doing, then get off your ass and change it, at your county level, don't screw over the rest of the state?
This like Greene's other bills leave me and thousands of others in the loss column, we lose more than we gain yet again, where does it stop? I would wager less than 30% of CPL holders will benefit from this turd, so that would leave a few people that get a loss again.
Seems to me that the biggest county in the state had all the above problems years ago, people got sick of it and guess what, yeah the largest county in the state has most of the issues now resolved.

Offline jfmi87

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2015, 08:43:18 PM »
What exactly are you losing? Cough up some specifics. I'll read the concurred bill again in the meantime maybe I can figure it out.

Offline TheQ

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2015, 08:47:25 PM »

What exactly are you losing? Cough up some specifics. I'll read the concurred bill again in the meantime maybe I can figure it out.

$10 fee increase, negative changes to MCL 28.425f (disclosure).
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Offline Jeff

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2015, 03:23:08 PM »
$10..... Let me just wiggle my wrist at my pelvis a few times.

Offline TheQ

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2015, 04:01:42 PM »

$10..... Let me just wiggle my wrist at my pelvis a few times.

Social Media headline: MOC Supports CPL fee increase

How does that play for you? As president and Legislative director, it worries me.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline linux203

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2015, 06:00:53 PM »

I would wager less than 30% of CPL holders will benefit from this turd, so that would leave a few people that get a loss again.

I think more than 30% will jump on the online renewal.
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2015, 08:41:59 PM »
$10..... Let me just wiggle my wrist at my pelvis a few times.
While you are doing what comes natural, why not stop to think where that $10.00 times how many cpl holders are the now is going.
If you can think maybe somebody like the sos who is rumored to have secret powers to make a hard copy license already might do a better job than say a county clerk that makes up there own rules.

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2015, 08:44:08 PM »
I think more than 30% will jump on the online renewal.
I bet somebody gets screwed by the failure to notify crap way before the online renewal is even available.
Are you good with that?

Offline linux203

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2015, 08:51:27 PM »
I bet somebody gets screwed by the failure to notify crap way before the online renewal is even available.
Are you good with that?

Notification is already in the law.  If people were going to be screwed over by notification, it would already have happened.  In context of SB34, the argument of getting screwed is moot.
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2015, 09:18:41 PM »
Notification is already in the law.  If people were going to be screwed over by notification, it would already have happened.  In context of SB34, the argument of getting screwed is moot.
Right now it is not a mandatory penalty. So if you don't notify in the 10 seconds that some cops feel is "immediate" the board can say it was close enough and you get no trouble (happened to a former co-worker of mine, the dash cam showed it took him 17 seconds to notify, because he waited for the cop to shut up first).
With the new deal it is mandatory that you get a penalty, so actually yes you can get "screwed" by this new deal.

Again I'll ask are you willing to let this happen to somebody, so you can renew online?

Offline gryphon

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2015, 09:21:37 PM »
Penalties for failure to inform were (somewhat) increased.

OLD LAW

MAY be fined not more than $500.00 or have CPL suspended for 6 months or both.

NEW LAW

SHALL be fined $500.00 AND have CPL suspended for 6 months.

So penalties went to the max automatically whereas before you could get a smaller fine or suspension alone (or neither).

Offline linux203

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2015, 09:55:50 PM »
My father-in-law didn't disclose until after the other driver was given a ticket for failure to yield. When he did disclose, the cop said, "I already knew". Repercussions... Zero.

I have personally had to disclose twice and had two pistols on me both times. Zero issues. (Once was by JPD and we know how gun friendly they are.)

So was your co-worker cited for failure to disclose or contempt of cop?
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline gryphon

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2015, 11:12:05 PM »
the cop said, "I already knew"

a. the law changed last year and cops no longer see CPL info come up when they run a tag
b. I wouldn't expect every cop to be that way, and I had one who I bet would not have been.  He acted as though he thought he caught me not disclosing (running my plate he knew I had a CPL), but I was just leaving work and since my employer doesn't allow firearms I wasn't armed.  ;)

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: SB 34/35 - CPL Reform (new SB 789/790)
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2015, 05:50:01 AM »
My father-in-law didn't disclose until after the other driver was given a ticket for failure to yield. When he did disclose, the cop said, "I already knew". Repercussions... Zero.

I have personally had to disclose twice and had two pistols on me both times. Zero issues. (Once was by JPD and we know how gun friendly they are.)

So was your co-worker cited for failure to disclose or contempt of cop?
Failure to disclose immediately,  but does it really matter because he would automatically be guilty under the new law?

I am glad you and dad had no issues, just like the majority of people. Do you think all cops are pro gun,  happy that non cops can carry?
I will ask a 3rd time if you are willing to allow somebody (which could be you or dad with the wrong cop) to get the new penalty so you can renew online?