Lansing Taco Bell Store 1646 on S. Cedar

[TheQ]

lil_freak_66, his girlfriend, and I were just asked to leave (11:10 PM on 7/29).  We complied, of course.  More details to come.



**EDIT**(made by lil freak)

corporate was contacted,the employee was in the wrong,we were invited back to taco bell for a free meal,we had no problems the 2nd time around,as well as all of our additional trips there since.

---------------------------------------------

[TheQ]

lil_freak_66 first places his order for his girlfriend and himself.  The cashier could see that we were openly armed.  She took our orders happily and we paid.  We found a table while we awaited our order.  freak's order came up, he picked his up, and went to use the restroom.  Just before freak finished in the rest room my order came up to the counter for pickup.  As I walked up a young Latino employee at the counter saw my firearm.  The following transpired:

Him: you a cop?
Me: nope.
Counter guy: you can't have that in here?
Me: <motioned down to my sidearm with my head and looked a bit puzzled>
Counter guy: yeah, you'll have to leave.

At this time freak emerged from the restroom.

Me (to freak): we gotta leave
Him: huh?
Counter guy: <mutters something about concealed> (maybe: it has to be concealed? maybe: you can't have it concealed?)
Me: he (motioning to employee) says we have to leave.
freak's girlfriend: <concurred with me>

freak made a few remarks I'll let him fill in as we quickly walked out the door as we had apparently outstayed our welcome.

We agreed to meet down the road at Meijers to consume our food Taco Bell so kindly allowed us to order and pay for before asking us to leave.

Sadly, it all happened so quickly I didn't have time to activate my iPhone recorder.

I am sending this note to Taco Bell via the website:

Hello,

I was wondering about your firearm carry policy by customers in stores.  My compadre and I were just asked (by a latino gentlemen at work on shift) to leave said store for openly carrying our sidearms in the store.  Are we not welcome in your stores while legally carrying for our own protection? If so, we'll plan to take our late night business elsewhere.

[TheQ]

Carrying: Springfield XDm 9mm 4.5
Loaded with: 19 rounds of Remington Golden Saber JHP
Also carrying (not loaded): 19 rounds of PMC FMJ

[autosurgeon]

hmmm I OC in Taco Bells all the time... no issues

For next time ask to speak with that manager... I would not let counter help run me off that easy... however not too bad for your first time.

[Bronson]

Why did you not request a manager and demand your money back?

Bronson

[autosurgeon]

Also ask lil how I handled the manager at the Rent A Center... I just kept allaying his fears and after a bit he calmed down and decided he wanted our money more than he wanted us to leave. Also we ended up educating all the employees in the store that day.

I know it is hectic the first time you  get asked to leave but it won't be the last and if you remain calm and friendly you will find that many times you can defuse the situation and turn it into a learning experience!

[emt805]

Why did you not request a manager and demand your money back?

Bronson

That was my thought as well, maybe not demand my money back as I would not want to seem aggressive to someone who is already mumbling about it needing to be cc.

[lil_freak_66]

My remarks to the employee consisted of,
"are you sure you are following corporate policy?"

"i believe you are violating corporate policy,you should check it out first"

Either way,we didnt hesitate as soon as i made my remarks while heading out the door and just left.

Also,another employee in there cleaning the floors said "she didnt know anything about that" toward the problematic employee,probably referring to his authority and reasoning to ask us to leave.

Email to corporate with a complaint and a request for corporate policy sent.Called manager,waiting on call back.

[lil_freak_66]

Recieved a call from a woman that says she is the one running this particular taco bell,im not sure if she is store manager,franchise owner or what...
She assured me that taco bell is to follow state law in regards to customer firearm possesion and that the employees at this store will have the firearm laws of michigan discussed with them so that it should not happen again.

[Agent1]

V

[FatboyCykes]

Recieved a call from a woman that says she is the one running this particular taco bell,im not sure if she is store manager,franchise owner or what...
She assured me that taco bell is to follow state law in regards to customer firearm possesion and that the employees at this store will have the firearm laws of michigan discussed with them so that it should not happen again.

And offered to replace your meal?

[lil_freak_66]

she didnt say replace,she said she'd cover a meal for the both of us however,I dont know how id go about getting it though,perhaps me and TheQ will call the manager and ask how to go about getting that though...get it sometime during the week.

[T Vance]

We agreed to meet down the road at Meijers to consume our food Taco Bell so kindly allowed us to order and pay for before asking us to leave.

[/quote]

I hope you have your CPL "TheQ". Having a firearm in the parking lot of any establishment that has a license for the sale of alcohol without having a CPL is a "no no". Every Meijer I have been to has said license. Just thought you should know.

[TheQ]

I hope you have your CPL "TheQ". Having a firearm in the parking lot of any establishment that has a license for the sale of alcohol without having a CPL is a "no no". Every Meijer I have been to has said license. Just thought you should know.

Mine was locked and stowed in the trunk while we ate.

However, I thought the law only pertained to the enclosed areas of the property?

I refer to this post

[lil_freak_66]

the premises is the building itself(for the purposes of defining the pfz),parking lots are not a pfz,i was told this previously by a store manager and the recent discovery by someone on here which states the liquor control act defines the premises for this purpose is the enclosed area or building,further protected us.

that free meal they offered us was good,three times better than how they're food normally tastes.

[Bronson]

the premises is the building itself(for the purposes of defining the pfz),parking lots are not a pfz,i was told this previously by a store manager and the recent discovery by someone on here which states the liquor control act defines the premises for this purpose is the enclosed area or building,further protected us.

So the manager of a store is now expert on gun laws?  As to the recent discovery of the Liquor Control Boards definition of "licensed premises" that MAY hold water but my thoughts run more towards what Zigziggityzoo wrote on MGO:

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showpost.php?p=948493&postcount=33

Bronson

[lil_freak_66]

No,the manager merely stated that the premises is the building itself,i have no idea what the managers do and dont know about michigan and federal firearm laws.

It really shouldn't surprise anyone that it is the building itself,otherwise thousands of people a year would be breaking the law by stopping in to get groceries while going to or from hunting or another firearm related activity.

[Agent1]

the premises is the building itself(for the purposes of defining the pfz),parking lots are not a pfz,i was told this previously by a store manager and the recent discovery by someone on here which states the liquor control act defines the premises for this purpose is the enclosed area or building,further protected us.

So the manager of a store is now expert on gun laws?  As to the recent discovery of the Liquor Control Boards definition of "licensed premises" that MAY hold water but my thoughts run more towards what Zigziggityzoo wrote on MGO:

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showpost.php?p=948493&postcount=33
Bronson

I am inclined to agree. A License holder can be fined for activity that takes place anywhere on the property through the Liquor Control Act. So it only make sense that the law apply's to the entire property. That is just my take on it.

[autosurgeon]

What we found is part of the liquor law. And no a licence holder cannot be fined for something going on in his parking lot or the rest of his property. I think you are referring to open containers? That would be on the person who opened it if it is outside the licensed premises which is the building or fenced area (at a festival) If it is a bar then of course open containers are allowed inside. But if you walk outside with it then YOU are drinking in public. You will be charged.

The issue is would the liquor law definition of premises hold up in court as it is not specified the same way in the firearms code.

[Bronson]

The issue is would the liquor law definition of premises hold up in court as it is not specified the same way in the firearms code.

Bingo.  We don't know if the courts would use a dictionary definition of "premises", in which case it'd be no carry anywhere on the property, or if they'd use the definition of "premises" as defined in the liquor law or another source, in which case it may be only the building that is off limits.  If were OCing sans CPL I'd stick with the broader definition.

Also, what about all the other prohibited places listed in .234d?  A non-CPL holder is still prohibited from being anywhere on the premises of those places.

Bronson