Author Topic: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption  (Read 4312 times)

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Offline linux203

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Weapons; licensing; waiver for certain individuals to carry weapon in weapon-free zones; expand to include certain corrections, probation, and parole officers. Amends sec. 5o of 1927 PA 372 (MCL 28.425o).

Sponsor: Joel Johnson

Co-Sponsor: Ray Franz

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2015-HB-4159

(I can't post in Legislative Lighthouse)
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline bigt8261

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2015, 09:08:55 AM »
While MOC has a tremendous amount of respect for Joel Johnson (bill sponsor), we will be respectfully opposing this bill in committee.

Offline bigt8261

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2015, 08:40:45 AM »
Remember to call the members of the Senate Judiciary Committee today and ask them to oppose SB 516 and HB 4159. No more special rights for "special" groups.

If you would like to attend the hearing it will be at 3pm in room 110 of the Farnum Building in Lansing.

123 W. Allegan Street
Lansing, MI 48933

Representatives from MOC will be there to oppose SB 516 and HB 4159 as well as support SB 226.

http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=710075bba75b914b805e1861a&id=b4a4ce2149&e=5419d26fa1

Offline bigt8261

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2015, 12:05:57 PM »
UPDATE

A revised Senate Judiciary Committee agenda just came out. SB 516 and HB 4159 are no longer on the agenda.

I'm not sure what to make of this yet. It could be the sponsors wanted more time, or it could be that the calls had an effect. It also could be a dirty trick by the committee chair. He has been known to use them in the past.

Either way, I have other scheduled business in Lansing today and will still be at the hearing just in case.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2015, 12:42:39 PM »
Or like the Lon Horiuchi Act (SB 53), they're pretending to give up on it so we let our guard down while they pass it.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline MI_XD

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Had a nice talk with my Rep while at our gun club banquet Saturday. Made sure that he understood that we did not like all the "carve outs" and special permissions bills. Also talked about getting the PFZs removed, and he asked, "would you make the trade of Getting CC in the PFZs, for loosing OC?" Before I could say anything , the president of the club who was standing behind me said, "Oh, no! Can't do that!" And I added that would be "Giving up a Right, to add to a Privilege". The whole group standing around let him know that we ALL would not give up OC, so they need to just repeal all the PFZs.
Had a chat about Rino Rick and that they just don't have enough votes to over-ride a Veto, when I asked if they WOULD over-ride his Veto.

 Think Aric got the message, now to get to Tonya!   :)



T minus 6   >:D
MI_XD
SW Michigan
I finally can be Proud of America, again!

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Or like the Lon Horiuchi Act (SB 53), they're pretending to give up on it so we let our guard down while they pass it.

I must be psychic, not just psychotic. Unfortunately, I cannot write to MY senator (Prick Jones) without using words like Prick and ****sucker, so I guess it's best if I don't petition for redress.

Date: Oct 5, 2015
UPDATE 2 - Bills Back on Agenda

The carve-out bills SB 516 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2015-SB-0516) and HB 4159 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2015-HB-4159) are back on the agenda again. If you called and/or emailed last week, please do so again this week (See contact information in the original message further down).

Not only do the bills carve-out special exemptions for 9 new classes, SB 516 also makes it harder for someone found not guilty to get their license back after they are acquitted. You can read the analysis HERE (https://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2015-2016/billanalysis/Senate/pdf/2015-SFA-0516-G.pdf) .

Thank you for your help. If you would like to attend Tuesday's hearing it will be at 3pm at Room 110, Farnum Building, 125 W. Allegan Street, Lansing, MI   48933
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline TheQ

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snickers.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline bigt8261

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Honorable Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee,

I write you today to express Michigan Open Carry, Inc.'s opposition to SB 516 and HB 4159. These bills seek to exempt 9 more special groups from this list of concealed pistol free zones listed in 28.425o (1).

While we understand the good intentions behind the bills, we nonetheless oppose them. We ultimately feel that exempting these classes in their personal lives, unrelated to any professional duty, amounts to an unconstitutional violation of equal protection and only furthers the notion of 1st, 2nd and 3rd class citizens.

I've personally listened to quite a bit of testimony from corrections officers as well as other groups that have sought the type of exemption these bills create. While the testimony is emotionally compelling, two things always stick out to me. Not once has anyone cited an example of someone being attacked in these zones nor cited statistics that point to these classes being attacked at a higher rate than the public in these zones. Second, and more importantly, most of the examples are of family members being stalked or attacked. Exempting the individuals would do little to protect their families, who would not be exempted, while they are away.

These people can already carry in the affected zones. It is well understood now, and supported by case law, that the zones in 425o (1) ONLY apply to concealed pistols. The proposed new classes can already carry openly today. Now, before someone wrongly says that open carry will make them a target let's remember that the entire reason these classes want an exemption is because they already believe they are a target.

Michigan Open Carry, Inc. supports the ability for ALL law-abiding citizens to be able to chose how THEY wish to protect themselves, whether that be with an openly carried pistol, a concealed pistol, or even something else. Until such a time comes where everyone is afforded the same rights, we will continue opposing these carve-outs. Just in case you are wondering, ZERO bills currently in the legislature would achieve this. (No SB 442 does not address this)

Bottom line, this is government exempting government from government regulation, and it's wrong.

Tom Lambert
President & Legislative Director
Michigan Open Carry, Inc.

Offline gryphon

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I like the letter!

Offline m.marino

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2015, 05:09:46 AM »
Very well written Tom. I like it a lot and it points out the major issue these "laws" have, which is direct violation of both the federal and state constitutions which make them illegal before they are even signed. Why they do this stuff is beyond me.

Michael
Tuebor Libertatus

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2015, 03:47:56 PM »
   With the recommendation that the substitute (S-4) be adopted and that the bill then pass.

The committee further recommends that the bill be given immediate effect.

Rick Jones

Chairperson

To Report Out:

Yeas: Senators Jones, Schuitmaker, Colbeck and Bieda

Nays: None
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline TheQ

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2015, 06:20:09 PM »
The state loves giving special favors to state actors. I wonder when they'll grant exemption to people who do IT for the State....
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2015, 08:07:08 PM »

Now I think I understand...

Because retired jailers can't choose where they might be attacked, they should always carry everywhere.

Because ordinary peons can't choose where they might be attacked, they should not be allowed to carry in many places.



http://www.wilx.com/home/headlines/Legislation-Would-Allow-Retired-Officers-to-Carry-in-Weapons-Free-Zones-340008312.html
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2015, 09:51:45 PM »
Right... That makes sense
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline bigt8261

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2015, 08:16:10 AM »
Jump to about 1:29:30 to see MOC's testimony in opposition to 4159 and 516

https://misenate.viebit.com/vod/?v=DZSdGDNolHoJ

The hearing was running long due to other bills so I tried to cut to the important items I wanted to address.

Offline #1Gunner

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2016, 01:35:12 PM »
Jump to about 1:29:30 to see MOC's testimony in opposition to 4159 and 516

https://misenate.viebit.com/vod/?v=DZSdGDNolHoJ

The hearing was running long due to other bills so I tried to cut to the important items I wanted to address.

So this passed now?? I saw the MSP Legal update 120...

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2016, 08:06:15 PM »
So this passed now?? I saw the MSP Legal update 120...

Michigan Department of Corrections Weapons Permit?
Maybe I need to ask my retired prison guard neighbor about that one...
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline #1Gunner

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2016, 09:39:36 AM »
Jump to about 1:29:30 to see MOC's testimony in opposition to 4159 and 516

https://misenate.viebit.com/vod/?v=DZSdGDNolHoJ

The hearing was running long due to other bills so I tried to cut to the important items I wanted to address.
Tom I am not too savvy on these political committee meeting what I was saying was this has already passed and 28.425o amended. How come there is no mention of 4159 passing on MOC? Did I miss that? Is this posted somewhere on the site or is this the first time you guys are hearing of MSP update 120 I'm just curious. I guess another way to ask the question is do we have to wait until the MSP updates are released is that how we are finding out if a bill has passed or do we have other means of finding out prior to a release of an MSP update?

Offline bigt8261

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Re: HB 4159 - Retired Parole, Probation, or Corrections Officer PFZ Exemption
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2016, 09:53:34 AM »
Admittedly we do a very poor job of updating these threads when something happens. I did include the bills passage in a legislative update email and in the new newsletter for members.

Did you receive the newsletter?