Car Break In

[Tango125INF11b]

Tonight on Friday July 30, 2010 at approximately 2235 hrs, my German shepherd Lars started growling at the door, then my beagle and pitbull followed suit. This was strange because normally they bark and go nuts when they hear someone outside. I peaked out my window and didn't see anyone but my dogs were still growling. I always carry my handgun on me even when at home because we have so many sex offenders in our area. I walked outside to see what was the matter and actually had to draw my Glock on some jerk trying to break into my Dodge Avenger. He took off running at meth-head speeds (for those of you who don't know that's about twelve parsecs, lol) and he suddenly did a turn around the block after I chased him. He was so far ahead that I just went back to my house and called the police. I notified dispatch that I was carrying so the officer wouldn't be so surprised when he showed up and decide to draw on me. Officer Woodruff showed up about 8 mins after I called dispatch and we looked at my car. There were pry marks on the two front doors, however I prevented him from getting in when I scared him off. The first thing Officer Woodruff did when he showed up is ask me if I was still carrying my sidearm, and I informed him no and obliged him to visually inspect my holster. He then began to pat me down to make sure I wasn't "holding". The next words out of his mouth were futile. "Do you have Michigan CCW?". I informed him I have a Michigan CPL. I also informed him that I was open carrying and he said that I was good to go. We inspected my car, logged the damage, and talked for a few mins about the situation. Officers Woodruff and Hawks(He patrolled the cemetery in my neighborhood to look for that a-hole) were the two officers who helped out tonight, and were very cool about the rules of OC. I also knew them prior to this incident, so that may have helped ease the situation. All in all, I had two very understanding cops tonight and I commend them. The incident report is 2010-06152 for those of you who are interested. They took down my info on my pistol so I imagine the OCing thing will probably be in the report. Buuuuuut like I said. I am still at home and not in cuffs so that is a great thing for me and OC.

[TheQ]

The next words out of his mouth were futile. "Do you have Michigan CCW?".

Even if you have no CPL, I believe you are authorized to carry concealed on your own property, yes?

[TheQ]

PS. Glad you are ok!

[emt805]

He then began to pat me down to make sure I wasn't "holding". The next words out of his mouth were futile. "Do you have Michigan CCW?".

What would it matter if you where still "holding" you are not brandishing and are still on your own lot being lawful. The same with him asking about the ccw being on your own land you do not need one.

[Bronson]

  The first thing Officer Woodruff did when he showed up is ask me if I was still carrying my sidearm, and I informed him no and obliged him to visually inspect my holster.

They took down my info on my pistol

Why? And more importantly how?  Did you go back inside and bring the pistol out for them to run the numbers? 

Bronson

[Tango125INF11b]

No, I know my info on my handgun. I thought it was kinda funny he patted me down also. He asked me about a CPL because I chased him down the block leaving my property perhaps? I thought it was weird that I knew the guy and he still did all this.

[emt805]

but you where oc and not cc

[TaxWhat]

Tonight on Friday July 30, 2010 at approximately 2235 hrs, my German shepherd Lars started growling at the door, then my beagle and pitbull followed suit. This was strange because normally they bark and go nuts when they hear someone outside. I peaked out my window and didn't see anyone but my dogs were still growling. I always carry my handgun on me even when at home because we have so many sex offenders in our area. I walked outside to see what was the matter and actually had to draw my Glock on some jerk trying to break into my Dodge Avenger.Had To Draw ? Why ? Was There Threat? He took off running at meth-head speeds (for those of you who don't know that's about twelve parsecs, lol) and he suddenly did a turn around the block after I chased him.Why ? What if you boxed in Bad Guy ? Then ? He was so far ahead that I just went back to my house and called the police. I notified dispatch that I was carrying so the officer wouldn't be so surprised when he showed up and decide to draw on me. Officer Woodruff showed up about 8 mins after I called dispatch and we looked at my car. There were pry marks on the two front doors, however I prevented him from getting in when I scared him off. The first thing Officer Woodruff did when he showed up is ask me if I was still carrying my sidearm, and I informed him no and obliged him to visually inspect my holster. He then began to pat me down to make sure I wasn't "holding".Officer Safety  Police are to gain Facts  ! Think anyone ever made bogeys call to collect ins or hurt Police ? The next words out of his mouth were futile. "Do you have Michigan CCW?". I informed him I have a Michigan CPL. I also informed him that I was open carrying and he said that I was good to go. We inspected my car, logged the damage, and talked for a few mins about the situation. Officers Woodruff and Hawks(He patrolled the cemetery in my neighborhood to look for that a-hole) were the two officers who helped out tonight, and were very cool about the rules of OC. I also knew them prior to this incident, so that may have helped ease the situation. All in all, I had two very understanding cops tonight and I commend them. The incident report is 2010-06152 for those of you who are interested. They took down my info on my pistol so I imagine the OCing thing will probably be in the report. Buuuuuut like I said. I am still at home and not in cuffs so that is a great thing for me and OC.

  IMO ; Just food for Thoughts ? On asking about Gun info Fishing , But you had chose of not replying .

[kryptonian]

good job but why did they need info on a gun that wasn't discharged? sounds like a flimsy premise to check your compliance. did the scumbag running away know you had it or did you yell at him that you had it? i know you had to say something to him. if you said you were going to shoot him that might be a factor and the extra incentive to run even faster.
 it's a good chance to remind everybody about your choice of words when in a confrontational situation. anything like "i'm going to kill you" or "i'm going to shoot you" could be made into attempted murder. when i was LEO in houston we had a guy in a bar fight over something stupid and he broke a bottle during the fight. he then said in front of us as we were rushing the fight "i'm gonna kill you". after his face met the floor he was charged with attempted murder because he used those words. in 4 minutes he went from carefree bar patron to attempted murder. he couldn't bond out and spent months in jail waiting on trial. maybe this should be it's own thread. if it's you and the suspect that's one thing but with witnesses making statements that heard you then your justified shoot may be illegal. moral of the story - keep your mouth shut or pick your words carefully.

[Advanced Security]

Tonight on Friday July 30, 2010 at approximately 2235 hrs, my German shepherd Lars started growling at the door, then my beagle and pitbull followed suit. This was strange because normally they bark and go nuts when they hear someone outside. I peaked out my window and didn't see anyone but my dogs were still growling. I always carry my handgun on me even when at home because we have so many sex offenders in our area. I walked outside to see what was the matter and actually had to draw my Glock on some jerk trying to break into my Dodge Avenger. He took off running at meth-head speeds (for those of you who don't know that's about twelve parsecs, lol) and he suddenly did a turn around the block after I chased him. He was so far ahead that I just went back to my house and called the police. I notified dispatch that I was carrying so the officer wouldn't be so surprised when he showed up and decide to draw on me. Officer Woodruff showed up about 8 mins after I called dispatch and we looked at my car. There were pry marks on the two front doors, however I prevented him from getting in when I scared him off. The first thing Officer Woodruff did when he showed up is ask me if I was still carrying my sidearm, and I informed him no and obliged him to visually inspect my holster. He then began to pat me down to make sure I wasn't "holding". The next words out of his mouth were futile. "Do you have Michigan CCW?". I informed him I have a Michigan CPL. I also informed him that I was open carrying and he said that I was good to go. We inspected my car, logged the damage, and talked for a few mins about the situation. Officers Woodruff and Hawks(He patrolled the cemetery in my neighborhood to look for that a-hole) were the two officers who helped out tonight, and were very cool about the rules of OC. I also knew them prior to this incident, so that may have helped ease the situation. All in all, I had two very understanding cops tonight and I commend them. The incident report is 2010-06152 for those of you who are interested. They took down my info on my pistol so I imagine the OCing thing will probably be in the report. Buuuuuut like I said. I am still at home and not in cuffs so that is a great thing for me and OC.

I too would like to know why he had to draw his gun. Had that been me "breaking into your car," I couldve made a pretty good case for defending myself with my gun. Clearly the coppers didn't know about it.

Jeff

[TheQ]

I too would like to know why he had to draw his gun. Had that been me "breaking into your car," I couldve made a pretty good case for defending myself with my gun. Clearly the coppers didn't know about it.

I don't think there are legal problems with drawing your gun in such a situation, aiming it (Unless you become threatened) could become legally problematic -- as that could rise to the level of "assault".

But holding a drawn gun is a way that could escalate the situation if he too had a gun -- but at this point you were one step ahead of him.

[Advanced Security]

I too would like to know why he had to draw his gun. Had that been me "breaking into your car," I couldve made a pretty good case for defending myself with my gun. Clearly the coppers didn't know about it.

I don't think there are legal problems with drawing your gun in such a situation, aiming it (Unless you become threatened) could become legally problematic -- as that could rise to the level of "assault".

But holding a drawn gun is a way that could escalate the situation if he too had a gun -- but at this point you were one step ahead of him.

Isn't that like definition of brandishing? Wouldn't the point of drawing the gun to be to threaten the presumably unarmed "thief".

At the point you had your gun drawn, and he wasn't armed, you were in fact one step ahead, however, that's why I don't walk around with a gun in my hand, rather in a holster.

[Agent1]

The perp was holding something in his hand to make those pry marks.......at 2235 hrs it could be about anything.

[Tango125INF11b]

The guy had a prybar and some other $#|t, that I couldn't make out. I yelled at him to freeze when he took off. I am on my private property and he is trespassing. I holstered my weapon before running after him into someone else's sidewalk. I am not a retard, I don't point unless prepared to shoot. Anybody else feel like heckling? Fun being an armchair critic right? I had my car attempted to be broken into. The cops knew I was in the right, obviously I didnt go to jail nor was I reprimanded. I admitted to the cops what happened and they didn't care. Any other questions or concerns or heckles? Please think about what you write before you press "post". And I willfully gave him my info because I knew I was in the right, and why piss off a cop trying to help me? Also I asked an officer at the citgo gas station on Pickard and Harris today and he said because he had the prybar and if I felt threatened, i was in the right. Castle doctrine gentlemen. Doesn't have to be IN my house. I am currently brandishing my ass.

[Tango125INF11b]

And thank you Agent1

[TheQ]

The perp was holding something in his hand to make those pry marks.......at 2235 hrs it could be about anything.

Exactly.  He had what could be construed as a weapon.  What's more, holding the gun in your hand, not pointed at anything but the ground would be a hard case for brandishing -- which is defined as "waving a gun about in a threatening manner".

[Tango125INF11b]

And the cop KNEW me, which is why it was weird he patted me down. And also, thank you to TheQ.

[cabman1]

Tonight on Friday July 30, 2010 at approximately 2235 hrs, my German shepherd Lars started growling at the door, then my beagle and pitbull followed suit. This was strange because normally they bark and go nuts when they hear someone outside. I peaked out my window and didn't see anyone but my dogs were still growling. I always carry my handgun on me even when at home because we have so many sex offenders in our area. I walked outside to see what was the matter and actually had to draw my Glock on some jerk trying to break into my Dodge Avengerwhy did you have to draw was he threatening to kill or rape your dodge if not you just committed a felony your life wasn't in imminent danger or rape. He took off running at meth-head speeds (for those of you who don't know that's about twelve parsecs, lol) and he suddenly did a turn around the block after I chased himby chasing him with a gun in your possession you broke a law. He was so far ahead that I just went back to my house and called the police. I notified dispatch that I was carrying so the officer wouldn't be so surprised when he showed up and decide to draw on me. Officer Woodruff showed up about 8 mins after I called dispatch and we looked at my car. There were pry marks on the two front doors, however I prevented him from getting in when I scared him off. The first thing Officer Woodruff did when he showed up is ask me if I was still carrying my sidearm, and I informed him no and obliged him to visually inspect my holster. He then began to pat me down to make sure I wasn't "holding". The next words out of his mouth were futile. "Do you have Michigan CCW?". I informed him I have a Michigan CPL. I also informed him that I was open carrying and he said that I was good to go. We inspected my car, logged the damage, and talked for a few mins about the situation. Officers Woodruff and Hawks(He patrolled the cemetery in my neighborhood to look for that a-hole) were the two officers who helped out tonight, and were very cool about the rules of OC. I also knew them prior to this incident, so that may have helped ease the situation. All in all, I had two very understanding cops tonight and I commend them. The incident report is 2010-06152 for those of you who are interested. They took down my info on my pistol so I imagine the OCing thing will probably be in the report. Buuuuuut like I said. I am still at home and not in cuffs so that is a great thing for me and OC.

I dont agree with anything you did in this incident and this is the kind of stuff that is going to set us as gun carriers back.

 You are very lucky that the police didn't take your firearm and arrest you for all the laws you broke you should have seen it walk back in your house and called the police!!!!!

[TheQ]

by chasing him with a gun in your possession you broke a law

I do have to agree that chasing him wasn't wise (legally or practically).  Making a citizens arrest, from what I understand on the subject, is filled with all sorts of technicalities and can expose the person to serious liabilities if not done absolutely right. Since the BG fled the area any eminent danger you were in immediately left with him.  (In post review and hindsight) the best thing to do at this point would have been to re-holster and return to the house to call the police

[Tango125INF11b]

Which is why I stopped chasing him. I don't care if you agree with me or not. The police did and that's all that matters. I didn't set anyone back but your own personal feelings. I am not your shrink so I don't care what you think. This is the second time I had to do this in the last 2 1/2 years (last time they were in my apt) and the Police were just fine with it. TheQ, perhaps I shouldn't have chased him that half block (2 houses past mine) but after that I just turned around and walked back into my house to notify police.

[TheQ]

This is the second time I had to do this in the last 2 1/2 years (last time they were in my apt) and the Police were just fine with it.

Time to find a new neighborhood? 

[Tango125INF11b]

Worst part is, the first time was on a totally different side of town!

[Tango125INF11b]

I have a house now, that was my old apt a little over 2 years ago

[Advanced Security]

The perp was holding something in his hand to make those pry marks.......at 2235 hrs it could be about anything.

Exactly.  He had what could be construed as a weapon.  What's more, holding the gun in your hand, not pointed at anything but the ground would be a hard case for brandishing -- which is defined as "waving a gun about in a threatening manner".

I thought it had something to do with displaying in a threatening manner. Also, what would the point of drawing a gun in that situation, if not to "threaten" the perp. I get it, the guy had a weapon.  However, you'll not convince me that you we following castle doctrine by chasing the guy.  Law, I believe reads, no duty to retreat, and repel the threat. I just wouldve handled it different.

As soon as we refuse to learn and grow, we should probably hang it up.

Jeff

[Tango125INF11b]

Well, when the police tell me I did nothing wrong on more than one occasion I think I will be alright. I trust an officer of the law. And just because I drew my weapon doesn't mean it was pointed at the guy. It means I drew my weapon. And you're right about the refusal to learn and grow, but according to police twice I was not in the wrong. So in my opinion, maybe someone else has some learning and growing to do. I don't have to convince you about the castle doctrine. You have your opinion and much like trying to change someones mind in politics, its never going to happen. I chased the perp off my property, I never threatened or pointed the weapon at him. I just told him to freeze and he booked it, I holstered it, ran two houses and stopped. I am glad you would have handled it different, sir. I would like to have seen/heard what you would have done after something of this nature happened, not while being an armchair critic. I don't like to pick on people but I am only returning the favor.

[Tango125INF11b]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89164759&sc=nl&cc=es-20080417

Perhaps I should have given him my car?

[TheQ]

I trust an officer of the law.

Where is this paradise? I don't trust officers of the law in my part.  If I do trust them at all, it is a cynical trust.

[Tango125INF11b]

Hahaha. Mount "Pleasant", MI. Go figure right? I used to be a deputy up here for Animal Control until I quit to finish my degree in medicine so I got to know most of the LEOs in the county. Others I got to know working security for a gated community up here for college students. Some of them are straight up jerks, mostly the ones I don't know(for a reason). Others (the majority I know) are pretty decent guys I would trust with my life. They are very knowledgeable men/women. Also happens to be that I drink with some of those people. (Not the ones involved with this incident). Perhaps that helps me more than others I guess, since I am known in these here parts. Might make my experience with LEOs a bit different than the average joe.

[cabman1]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89164759&sc=nl&cc=es-20080417

Perhaps I should have given him my car?

No one said give him your car but why would you walk out the house??? Why not call the police from inside your house? instead of putting your self in danger..  Why would you start assuming some ones mental health by saying they see a shrink?  Why so defensive??? If the police said you were in the right it must mean your in the right because we all know the police are always right!!!!I still believe you were in the wrong by putting yourself in harms way by going outside to protect your property if he would have had a gun and would have shot you was the dodge worth your life???   Think about that..And re read the castle doctrine it say people not possessions!!  No you dont have to retreat but you cant walk out and put yourself in danger and plea that you had no other choice but to take his life because you did. You could have stayed inside and called the police!!!!

[Tango125INF11b]

I went outside to see what they were growling at. I didn't know he was at my car until I was outside. So obviously I couldn't "stay" inside and know he was there. Armchair critic. Enough said. You weren't here to know exactly how/what went down. And I believe you don't give police enough credit. And yes I am defensive. You are accusing me of committing a crime. Should I sit there and take it? No. Would you? If you are so self-rightiously adamant why don't you put an ad in the Morning Sun, and see if this perp comes forward, and pay for his lawyer to sue me.

Moderators, can we lock this thread so it stops being a giant b***h-fest. Its all it turned in to.

[autosurgeon]

I am locking this per the OP's request.