MOC files lawsuit against Clio Area Schools, Seeks to protect law abiding gun ow

[bigt8261]

If a CADL board member was fined, the money would go back to CADL.  Food for thought...

Yeah, we thought about that. 'Wait, THIS organization wants to create fines that go towards libraries?'

It is what it is and it's still way better than what we have. We did look into redirecting the fines but that would take a constitutional amendment.

[CitizensHaveRights]

So, let me get this straight:
I sue political entity X for preemption violations, and get taxpayer dollars from X in return.
Judge fines the responsible official whose willful illegal acts got X sued, and X gets dollars from the official.
It sort of sounds like the official is indirectly paying my settlement/judgment, which beats the heck out of the taxpayers footing the whole bill.

[bigt8261]

That would only work in the case of libraries and it would only work indirectly.

We actually wanted the fines to be used to repay the legal fees for the LUG, but as stated that would have taken a constitutional amendment.

A big part of this bill is not only protecting gun owners, but also protecting taxpayers. If an official says "meh, I'm not paying for it' then they can still cause a lot of harm to people that don't deserve it.

[TheQ]

Another thought that we had was to use the fines for the public defender fund. Again, constitutional amendment.

[MI_XD]

Another thought that we had was to use the fines for the public defender fund. Again, constitutional amendment.

Is that a MOC constitutional amendment, or Michigan?

[autosurgeon]

Michigan ... MOC does not have a constitution. Or public defenders.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

[Ultra]

What is the status of the lawsuit against Clio and the one against Ann Arbor. I'm failing to find any updates...

[gryphon]

Appeals Court oral arguments are Tuesday Dec 13.  This has been announced in the Nov and Dec newsletter as well as the email updates, none of which you receive I assume?

It's also on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/MichiganOpenCarry/posts/10154219226166234

[Ultra]

Not on facebook. Have had some email issues lately. Sorry that I hadn't caught the info.  Thx for the update.

[gryphon]

You can read the fb post without having an account on fb, but I know a lot of people don't read fb.  Are you going to be able to attend the oral arguments at the court on Tuesday?

[CitizensHaveRights]

facebook, fbcdn, etc, are all banned domains on my home network.
If 100 million gun owning families did the same we could bring Zuckerberg to his knees.

I'm starting the week with two full days of CPE, so I'll be watching lectures and eating catered lunch on Tuesday.

[Ultra]

I will not be attending arguments.  I will be in my pizzeria working.

[Neilmrb]

Where and what time  is hearing?
Is our attorney the only one going to be there ?

[gryphon]

Begins at 10AM.  MOC argument is first, MGO argument is second.  You can see the address and day calendar here:

https://media.miopencarry.org/litigation/Clio/CoA/CoA%20Oral%20Argument%20Schedule%2007NOV2016.pdf

Also:

WHEN: Tuesday, December 13th at 10:00am
WHERE: District 1 – Detroit – 3020 West Grand Boulevard, Detroit – 14th Floor

* Public parking at daily and hourly rates is available at several locations within one block of Cadillac Place. Fisher Building public parking and the Victory parking lot are located at the corner of West Grand Boulevard and Third Avenue. New Center One public parking is located behind the St. Regis Hotel off of Lothrop. Additional parking is available off of Baltimore Avenue just west of Second Avenue.

* No firearms or electronic devices are allowed.

A number of MOC members will be attending.  Some people are running car pools from various areas of Michigan.

[CitizensHaveRights]

Interesting legal analysis from a school carry opponent, presented by an accounting and consulting firm that probably works for a few school districts:
http://www.plantemoran.com/industries/k-12/documents/school-and-finance-seminar/open-carry-update.pdf

[Ultra]

How'd it go today?

[gryphon]

Here are some random comments from fb.  Maybe someone else will chime in as well.

I am in the hallway outside the CoA courtroom (there is overflow -- I'm listening to the speaker). Dean Greenblatt is speaking first on behalf of MOC. The questions the court judges are asking are making it clear they are not friendly at all to our case.

Clio Lawyer to Court: I don't know why we are here today.
Presiding judge Gleicher: neither do I, but that's not a bad thing for you.
Clio Lawyer sits down. Dean Greenblatt Stands up.
Gleicher to Dean: You have a tough argument to make, go ahead.
The court's contempt that Dean disrupted their breakfast for a hearing was palpable.

They have been drilling Dean for 25 minutes now. The aggressive questions continue from the bench aimed at Dean.

Gleicher was the dissenting vote in CADL. i'm sure she'll vote against us here. That means we have to get both Kelly and Shapiro. I don't have a good feeling about this.
Kelly was very condescending and I thought biased in her questioning.
It was embarrassing that the court has less of a handle on Michigan case law than a panel of random hacks on MSNBC would.

They were not adversarial at all to Clio.  This experience is way different than CADL, where the judges were much more open minded to our case.

It seems we got two Democrat nominated or appointed judges and 1 Republican -- who wasn't very sympathetic to us.

no one expects the decision out of the CoA to be in our favor. Let me reintegrate that: no one in the know that is close to this case. NO ONE.

(From Jim Makowski) It was a little rough today that's for sure. Sometimes you get a "cold" panel that listens to what you say, thanks you and moves on. Other times you get a "hot" panel that never lets you get to your prepared arguments but instead starts pounding you with questions from the start. This was definitely the latter but Dean was beat on far worse than I.

[G36shooter]

In my opinion this did not go well, but who knows how the CoA will rule. With the condescending remarks and attitude of presiding judge Kirsten Kelly this case may be above the pay grade of the CoA. (my thoughts)