MGO backs Ann Arbor Schools suit

[CitizensHaveRights]

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/04/michigan_gun_owners_files_laws.html

To paraphrase a AA school official "what we're doing is illegal, and we'll probably get sued for it, but I don't give a $#|t, it's not my money"

[TheQ]

+1 for MGO

[gryphon]

Well, this is very interesting!

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?327586-Michigan-Gun-Owners-files-suit-against-Ann-Arbor-Public-Schools&p=2604315&viewfull=1#post2604315

[CitizensHaveRights]

Good. That would give voters grounds to recall the bastards for mismanagement, if only the bastards weren't doing exactly what the AA voting public wants them to do.

It's a big district. I bet a 100k legal bill is a drop in the proverbial bucket.

[gryphon]

It may just be a "drop in the bucket" as far as overall budget, but most school districts have every dollar budgeted and any unforseen expenditure probably hurts and takes away from something else.

Most Michigan school systems have a lot of waste in them.  I was looking though the offices and departments of one county a while back and there were dozens of offices that had zero to do with the education of our children.

[part deux]

Friend that lives in district said they are having financial issues, and it's getting worse.  They have way over spent current and hoped for enrollment.

[CitizensHaveRights]

I can see it now: Dear Legislature, please save us from our own stupidity by changing the law to make what we already did legal. Do it for the children, otherwise those mean nasty gun owners will take money from the mouths of innocent students and teachers.

[CitizensHaveRights]

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/05/ann_arbor_schools_looks_to_ins.html

[m.marino]

Ann arbor is not going to like it when the insurance company tells them to pay the bill themselves. I would love to read a copy of the contract that Ann arbor has with Zurich, as I am willing to bet a good bit of money there is a clause in there for NOT covering illegal activities willful or other wise illegal done by the district or it's agents.

The comment section in that article has one individual who is just special in all the wrong ways. How a person can come across as both insulting and arrogant in such short phrases is truly a work .

[CitizensHaveRights]

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/05/ann_arbor_parents_seek_change.html

1038 petition signatures from Ann Arbor parents statewide, if you believe that everybody signing petitions at MoveOn.org lives in Michigan. (snort)

"Until Lewis attended the choir concert at Pioneer High, she said, she didn't know concealed pistol license holders were allowed to carry a sidearm in schools.

As a psychiatrist, Lewis said she approaches the topic of guns in schools from a health standpoint and not a political side." (ROFL)

[m.marino]

Hey she knows how to take her ques from her superiors very well. Even though the CDC and three other studies all show guns owners to be MORE mentally stable then the general public. The "progressives" say that it is a mental health issue and they are "right" you know. Now where did I put that manila rope for those neck ties.

[CitizensHaveRights]

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/contributors/2015/05/16/guns-schools/27398953/


Make the right decision about guns in schools
By Kristen Moore, Detroit Free Press guest writer 12:19 a.m. EDT May 16, 2015

Kristen Moore is the volunteer chapter leader for the Michigan chapter of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, a part of Everytown for Gun Safety, the nation's largest gun violence prevention organization.

[CitizensHaveRights]

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/08/michigan_gun_owners_confident.html

Any chance of combining the Clio and Ann Arbor suits at the Court of Appeals, assuming Judge Kuhnke rules the only way the statute allows, and assuming AA schools appeal the decision?

[TheQ]

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/08/michigan_gun_owners_confident.html

Any chance of combining the Clio and Ann Arbor suits at the Court of Appeals, assuming Judge Kuhnke rules the only way the statute allows, and assuming AA schools appeal the decision?

Consolidation is certainly an option, it's at the sole discretion of the CoS.

[dmd7765]

Summary disposition was granted to AAPS, ignored a higher court ruling. Off to appeals we go

[TheQ]

Summary disposition was granted to AAPS, ignored a higher court ruling. Off to appeals we go

Now that we have a Circuit split, this will be interesting.

I bet the CoA will consolidate.

[CitizensHaveRights]

Summary disposition, as in "you guys don't have enough facts on your side to merit a trial, the school is obviously the winner here"?

To approve a motion for summary judgment in favor of the side that keeps losing in every other court in the state makes one wonder what the judge smoked for breakfast.

[gryphon]

I want to read his dismissal ruling.

[CitizensHaveRights]

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/09/judge_throws_out_gun_lawsuit_a.html

A Washtenaw County judge Wednesday dismissed a lawsuit against Ann Arbor Public Schools that claimed its policies banning guns break state law.

Michigan Gun Owners in April filed a lawsuit against the district, which had enacted policies that effectively ban guns from schools.

Washtenaw County Circuit Court Judge Carol Kuhnke on Wednesday, Sept. 23 granted the district's motion for summary disposition, thereby dismissing the lawsuit.

While state law prohibits local units of government from enacting firearms policies, the law does not define a school district as a local unit of government, Kuhnke said.

Ann Arbor Public Schools Superintendent Jeanice Swift said she was thrilled but not surprised by the decision.

Jim Makowski, the attorney for Michigan Gun Owners, said he will appeal the ruling.

The Ann Arbor Public Schools policies create a "dangerous weapon and disruption-free zone" on all district-owned property, prohibiting the presence of guns, explosives and a variety of knives and other objects.

Kuhnke's ruling is contrary to the outcome of a similar lawsuit against Clio schools. A Genesee County judge ruled earlier this year a father can carry a gun into schools as state law does not ban concealed pistol license holders from openly carrying in schools.

[CitizensHaveRights]

And the law does define a library board as a local unit of government, or the judge is directly defying CADL v MOC?

[linux203]

Either this case or the Clio case needed to go to the CoA.  Until there was binding case law regarding a school, this issue would continue to arise outside of the circuit Clio is in.

I also expect that this will end up in the SCOM.  If MOC/MGO looses, we would appeal.  If schools loose, there will be more districts backing an appeal. 

[part deux]

And the law does define a library board as a local unit of government, or the judge is directly defying CADL v MOC?

Judges sole goal is re-election.  Laws don't matter, CoA won't matter.  All the voters will remember is her decision.

[TheQ]

Either this case or the Clio case needed to go to the CoA.  Until there was binding case law regarding a school, this issue would continue to arise outside of the circuit Clio is in.

I also expect that this will end up in the SCOM.  If MOC/MGO looses, we would appeal.  If schools loose, there will be more districts backing an appeal.

SCoM doesn't have to hear every case that comes to it. In fact, they usually only accept about 1% of cases that are petitioned to them.

Your first appeal is by right, appeals beyond the the one immediately above trial court has to be earned. In other words, the court has to agree to take the case.

See Writ of Certiorari

[CitizensHaveRights]

USA Today:

“We’re very grateful that the judge saw the merits in the argument,” Ann Arbor Superintendent Jeanice Swift said after the hearing.

"We are hard-wired to keep our children safe from any threat of any sort," she said. "I don't believe it is a teacher and administrator's job to determine the intent of that person who is walking into a school."

The ruling displeased those who had filed the lawsuit.

“I think the judge decided to ignore state law and do what she wanted to do anyway,” said Jim Makowski, the attorney for Michigan Gun Owners. “We will appeal.”

“There’s no reason to believe that the same Court of Appeals that ruled in the CADL (Capital Area District Library) case will rule any different this time,” Wong said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/24/michigan-school-district-open-carry-guns/72725690/

[mosnar87]

Why is it that these reporters find it so difficult to understand that CADL v. MOC refers to the suit CADL brought against MOC, not a suit brought by MOC against CADL? It's almost like they never had to learn legal citation in their English classes or something.

[CitizensHaveRights]

Speaking of CADL, Kuhnke (Wong v AAPS) could be the sister of Aqualina (CADL v MOC).

Where did Aqualina get the authority to enact a permanent OC ban in the library district?
Isn't that grounds for a Judicial Tenure complaint?

[linux203]

Why is it that these reporters find it so difficult to understand that CADL v. MOC refers to the suit CADL brought against MOC, not a suit brought by MOC against CADL? It's almost like they never had to learn legal citation in their English classes or something.

Most people also gloss over the point that CADL sued MOC to obtain an injunction against the public.

[TheQ]

Speaking of CADL, Kuhnke (Wong v AAPS) could be the sister of Aqualina (CADL v MOC).

Where did Aqualina get the authority to enact a permanent OC ban in the library district?
Isn't that grounds for a Judicial Tenure complaint?

Keep in mind: local judges are elected by the local population. In Ann Arbor, that is a rather liberal population.

Pandering was at play here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CitizensHaveRights]

But when that pandering rises to the level of misconduct the Judicial Tenure Commission steps in.

Deciding contrary to law isn't exactly misconduct, like when Kuhnke declared that AAPS management had the power to enact gun control.

But Aquilina IMO overstepped her powers when, instead of proclaiming that CADL could regulate guns, issued her own personal gun ban in the form of a court injunction against every single Michigan resident. That's not judicial, that's legislative.

It's the sort of baseless crap I expected to come from Laura Baird's bench when Ingham voters elected her based on the vast judicial experience she claimed to have inherited from her grandfather. It's funny, but I don't think I ever saw Judge Baird in the news. Is that because she became a halfway decent judge despite her prior record, or is it because the chief justice knows better than to assign anything important to her courtroom?

[TheQ]

But when that pandering rises to the level of misconduct the Judicial Tenure Commission steps in.

Deciding contrary to law isn't exactly misconduct, like when Kuhnke declared that AAPS management had the power to enact gun control.

But Aquilina IMO overstepped her powers when, instead of proclaiming that CADL could regulate guns, issued her own personal gun ban in the form of a court injunction against every single Michigan resident. That's not judicial, that's legislative.

It's the sort of baseless crap I expected to come from Laura Baird's bench when Ingham voters elected her based on the vast judicial experience she claimed to have inherited from her grandfather. It's funny, but I don't think I ever saw Judge Baird in the news. Is that because she became a halfway decent judge despite her prior record, or is it because the chief justice knows better than to assign anything important to her courtroom?

Cases are assigned in a rotating pool by the court clerk's office.

[LD]

"We are hard-wired to keep our children safe from any threat of any sort," she said. "I don't believe it is a teacher and administrator's job to determine the intent of that person who is walking into a school."

How does a teacher or administrator determine the "intent" of ANY person walking into a school?
Shouldn't ALL people be banned from school grounds for the safety of the students?

[Pond Scum]

"We are hard-wired to keep our children safe from any threat of any sort," she said. "I don't believe it is a teacher and administrator's job to determine the intent of that person who is walking into a school."

How does a teacher or administrator determine the "intent" of ANY person walking into a school?
Shouldn't ALL people be banned from school grounds for the safety of the students?

I believe that it IS their job to evaluate every person and try to determine if they have ill intent ..... regardless if they have a gun showing or not.  I believe that most all teachers make a judgement about strangers they see in the building.  If they look like Grandpa Walton they probably judge them to be okay .... if they look like Freddie Krugger they probably suspect something is up.

[TheQ]

How does a teacher or administrator determine the "intent" of ANY person walking into a school?
Shouldn't ALL people be banned from school grounds for the safety of the students?

Clio did just that this year.

[LD]

Clio did just that this year.

They actually banned EVERYONE? Even parents dropping off or picking up their kids?
Police officers?
Repair persons?
Delivery people?

Well.... for the safety of the children, that's the way it should be.

[TheQ]

They actually banned EVERYONE? Even parents dropping off or picking up their kids?
Police officers?
Repair persons?
Delivery people?

Well.... for the safety of the children, that's the way it should be.

Parents now have to wait outside of the building during drop off and pick up.

[bigt8261]

Understand that what Clio says in the news and actually does in reality are two COMPLETELY different things.

Clio allows a parent (guardian actually) into the office every day where he is treated pleasantly. The very first day they freaked out a bit, but everything changed on the second day. The parent has had nothing but positive reports since then. Further, the superintendent has lamented publicly on Facebook that open carry happens in his schools "every day".

[LD]

Understand that what Clio says in the news and actually does in reality are two COMPLETELY different things.

Clio allows a parent (guardian actually) into the office every day where he is treated pleasantly. The very first day they freaked out a bit, but everything changed on the second day. The parent has had nothing but positive reports since then. Further, the superintendent has lamented publicly on Facebook that open carry happens in his schools "every day".

Are you telling me that Clio schools allows people to wander the halls of the school?
How do they know which of those are good people or bad people?

Think of the children....the school should go into lock down every time anyone comes in the door or on the property.
Call the police until they find out if the person is a felon or another kind of bad guy.

[linux203]

Call the police until they find out if the person is a felon or another kind of bad guy.

Yes, they need to see everyone's papers to ensure they are not a sex offender and prohibited from the property.

Same arguments LEO's use to demand papers from Open Carriers can be used in that situation. "I need to make sure it isn't stolen," or "I need to make sure you aren't prohibited from owning a firearm."