Author Topic: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption  (Read 3027 times)

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Offline Scandiacus

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SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« on: April 30, 2015, 10:47:35 AM »
SB 0305, introduced on 04/29/2015 by Senator Michael Green, would add preemption of local knife laws in Michigan, similar to what currently exists with firearm preemption.  Michigan's knife laws aren't fantastic by any means, but the major patchwork of local restrictions makes carrying a knife even more of a burden, so if this passes it will be a major step in the right direction.  A lot of folks who carry guns also carry knives, so this bill is likely right up our alley - be sure to write your senator in support of this bill.

Bill text: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2015-2016/billintroduced/Senate/pdf/2015-SIB-0305.pdf

Bill status: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(1wmteespy5qb5ruv0mbzphtw))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2015-SB-0305

(Edit) This bill would also remove the prohibition on the sale and possession of switchblades in Michigan.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 10:54:21 AM by Scandiacus »

Offline TeMpTiN

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2015, 03:46:39 PM »
I am only okay at reading and interpreting legalese.

I see the same problem here that firearms preemption has, no teeth.

I am also weary that Mike might help create another loophole.
So I am interested to hear how this will really interact with the existing statutes.

Offline TheQ

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2015, 06:53:11 PM »
Bill isn't about guns, therefore our legislative team is recommending a position of neutral.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2015, 07:32:59 AM »
Are you saying that nobody that carries a gun would benefit from this?

To me neutral means "we don't care what happens".

Offline mosnar87

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2015, 07:55:06 AM »
To me, in this context, neutral means "MOC is a single issue org, this isn't our issue".
"I don't want to be someone that successfully defends himself with a pistol.  I want to be someone that never has to defend himself with a pistol."
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"Its not what I do for a living, its that I want to keep doing it"
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Offline Scandiacus

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2015, 09:56:22 AM »
To me, in this context, neutral means "MOC is a single issue org, this isn't our issue".

Yeah, IMO it wouldn't make sense for the organization to get officially involved in this effort as it's too tangential to handgun OC.  But it's something I'm sure a lot of OCers would support, so I wanted to make note of the bill here - knives are also a 2A issue, and I think it's safe to say that everyone here is a 2A supporter.

Offline mosnar87

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2015, 11:21:33 AM »
Yeah, IMO it wouldn't make sense for the organization to get officially involved in this effort as it's too tangential to handgun OC.  But it's something I'm sure a lot of OCers would support, so I wanted to make note of the bill here - knives are also a 2A issue, and I think it's safe to say that everyone here is a 2A supporter.

Exactly, and, in my case at least, you are correct. I definitely am excited to see movement on the protection of citizens from government infringements on our right to own, transport, and use  knives, and I'm sure many others are as well.
"I don't want to be someone that successfully defends himself with a pistol.  I want to be someone that never has to defend himself with a pistol."
-Bronson, 2013

"Its not what I do for a living, its that I want to keep doing it"
-Evil Creamsicle, 2010

Offline TheQ

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2015, 02:56:12 PM »
The previous 3 posts are right on the mark.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline LD

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2015, 07:39:05 AM »
Yeah, IMO it wouldn't make sense for the organization to get officially involved in this effort as it's too tangential to handgun OC.  But it's something I'm sure a lot of OCers would support, so I wanted to make note of the bill here - knives are also a 2A issue, and I think it's safe to say that everyone here is a 2A supporter.

I do wish that were true but the degree of support brings it into question sometimes.

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2015, 10:07:53 AM »
"Isn't our issue", "we don't care what happens", "not our problem" all mean the same.
Good enough.  :(


Offline CV67PAT

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2015, 12:32:31 PM »
Just a diversion from doing something really meaningful about gun laws in Michigan, from senator Mike "Loophole" Green.
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline mosnar87

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2015, 12:51:14 AM »
"Isn't our issue", "we don't care what happens", "not our problem" all mean the same.
Good enough.  :(

You are quite thoroughly incorrect.

When I say it "isn't our issue", I don't mean we, the individual members of MOC don't care what happens regarding knife laws in Michigan, I mean that we, the non-profit called Michigan Open Carry, Inc, are focused on the single issue of the lawful carry of a holstered handgun, and that this particular senate bill has absolutely nothing to do with that single issue.

If individual members of MOC support, join, and/or fund organizations supporting other aspects of the rights alleged to be protected by the second amendment and article 1 section 6, that can only be considered a good thing.
"I don't want to be someone that successfully defends himself with a pistol.  I want to be someone that never has to defend himself with a pistol."
-Bronson, 2013

"Its not what I do for a living, its that I want to keep doing it"
-Evil Creamsicle, 2010

Offline LD

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2015, 06:00:59 AM »
You are quite thoroughly incorrect.

When I say it "isn't our issue", I don't mean we, the individual members of MOC don't care what happens regarding knife laws in Michigan, I mean that we, the non-profit called Michigan Open Carry, Inc, are focused on the single issue of the lawful carry of a holstered handgun, and that this particular senate bill has absolutely nothing to do with that single issue.

If individual members of MOC support, join, and/or fund organizations supporting other aspects of the rights alleged to be protected by the second amendment and article 1 section 6, that can only be considered a good thing.

As opposed to if the individual members chose to support ALL forms of open carry of guns.

Offline mosnar87

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2015, 09:27:43 AM »
As opposed to if the individual members chose to support ALL forms of open carry of guns.

As far as I am concerned, I personally do support all forms of open carry, whether it be of pistols, rifles, knives, axes, swords, or any other category of man portable, discriminating (not for mass effect, like a grenade) weapon you can imagine.

But MOC has specific goals, outlined, I believe, in the bylaws. Any major change to those goals would, if I am correct, require an amendment of the bylaws. Thus, the decision to be neutral, which is to say, have no position, whether negative or positive, is the only correct decision for MOC with regard to this senate bill.

The individual members are absolutely free to, and I personally would encourage them to, offer support for this bill, just as they would for any other, by contacting their senators and representatives.
"I don't want to be someone that successfully defends himself with a pistol.  I want to be someone that never has to defend himself with a pistol."
-Bronson, 2013

"Its not what I do for a living, its that I want to keep doing it"
-Evil Creamsicle, 2010

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2015, 12:18:37 PM »
You are quite thoroughly incorrect.

When I say it "isn't our issue", I don't mean we, the individual members of MOC don't care what happens regarding knife laws in Michigan, I mean that we, the non-profit called Michigan Open Carry, Inc, are focused on the single issue of the lawful carry of a holstered handgun, and that this particular senate bill has absolutely nothing to do with that single issue.

If individual members of MOC support, join, and/or fund organizations supporting other aspects of the rights alleged to be protected by the second amendment and article 1 section 6, that can only be considered a good thing.
So you are saying the city of Dearborn has never used their knife ban to harass an OCer?

Offline TeMpTiN

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2015, 10:21:17 AM »
I feel like there is some pointless nit picking going on.

This thread should serve as a notice to the membership of a bill they may, or may not choose to support. It has already been stated quite well why the organization as an organization has and should have a neutral stance on it.  I would also argue that the knowledge base of a handgun open carry group would contain some information on knife carry, however no where near what would be appropriate to as an organization testify before congress. If the organization is going to support a bill it should have the knowledge and be prepared to do just that.

I separate thread on the topic of "Have knife laws been used to harass people who practice handgun Open Carry" would be better place to discuss that issue and mention that support of a preemption bill for knife laws would help.

Is there a knife group I can go to for more information?
Do they need a few extra bucks to help the fight?
Are they interested in any of our experience working with the legislator?

Spreading the answers to those questions would go much farther in supporting the passage of such a bill than MOC posting "we Like this" on the web page.

Offline Scandiacus

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2015, 11:13:08 AM »
Is there a knife group I can go to for more information?
Do they need a few extra bucks to help the fight?
Are they interested in any of our experience working with the legislator?

1.) Yes, there is a knife group you can go to.  From my own contact with them, I know that this bill was pushed (and, I believe, drafted in large part) by the American Knife and Tool Institute (www.akti.org).  They haven't posted the bill's status to their news page yet, which is why I was hesitant to publish their involvement (I'd prefer to give them the first word), but I suppose it's probably OK at this point since they don't update their site too often and, well, you asked.  That also leaves me free to make the following plug for monetary support:

2.) AKTI has a page where you can donate or (even better) join.  As a bonus, membership gets you access to their legal database covering analyses of various states' knife laws.  I frequently transport a lot of knives across state lines, so I've found that quite handy on a number of occassions.

3.) Ask them and see!  I'm an AKTI member and they suggested to me that help may be needed when it goes to committee hearing.  To that end I would like to drum up a group who could offer support at that hearing, though I don't have any personal experience dealing with the legislature directly.  Anyone here interested in being a part of that? (Not as a MOC event, obviously.)  Maybe once we have a group, we can also contact AKTI and coordinate more closely with them.  And, obviously, write your legislators.  The more support, the better - since knives generally take second place to guns in peoples' minds, it may take some work to convince even 2A-friendly legislators that this is a law that needs introducing/changing.

Honestly, it might be for the best if OC groups don't become *officially* involved in supporting this bill anyway - at least not as the main groups pushing for the change.  OC is a divisive topic, even among gun owners, so NOT having that association is probably in the best interest of an unrelated bill like this which will already have its fair share of detractors.  That said, groups of people like you are *exactly* the kind of people we need to support an effort like this, because many MOC members have the experience and proven track record of legal success that's needed for this kind of effort.

On an unrelated note, I think it's finally time I bite the bullet and actually buy a MOC membership....

Offline part deux

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2015, 11:21:07 AM »
kniferights.org has done some fantastic work around the country

Offline Divegeek

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2015, 09:42:14 AM »
http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=333&Itemid=1

kniferights.org has been following this closely and supporting it.

Offline Scandiacus

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2015, 10:40:04 AM »
Cool, I didn't know they were involved.  Makes sense, though.

Offline Scandiacus

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Re: SB 0305 - Michigan Knife Preemption
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2015, 10:48:40 AM »