Author Topic: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case  (Read 9122 times)

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Offline Xpiatio

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Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« on: June 02, 2015, 06:00:13 PM »
A judge said a Grand Rapids police officer acted lawfully when he stopped and briefly detained a man openly carrying a holstered firearm.


http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2015/06/judge_backs_grand_rapids_polic.html

From the article:
Deffert's behavior was not consistent with my experience with open carry advocates,' similarly opined that Plaintiff's behavior was instead 'more consistent with tactical preparedness for unlawful purposes
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 07:34:31 PM by Xpiatio »

Offline TheQ

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2015, 06:26:35 PM »
Definite win for police state -- badges allow you to draw a gun on a peaceful person.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline gryphon

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2015, 06:38:30 PM »
Tactical preparedness for unlawful purposes?  What?

Offline Xpiatio

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2015, 07:39:37 PM »
I guess we can expect swatting in stores now.

Quick question out of ignorance.   The recent case ruling from the 6th circuit court seems to conflict with the ruling from this case.   With the seemingly conflicting rulings, what can we take away from the Deffert case ruling?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 07:58:09 PM by Xpiatio »

Offline mosnar87

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2015, 03:28:52 AM »
I guess we can expect swatting in stores now.

Quick question out of ignorance.   The recent case ruling from the 6th circuit court seems to conflict with the ruling from this case.   With the seemingly conflicting rulings, what can we take away from the Deffert case ruling?

That this judge apparently can't read. The case from the 6th circuit that you mentioned was cited by this judge.
"I don't want to be someone that successfully defends himself with a pistol.  I want to be someone that never has to defend himself with a pistol."
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Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2015, 07:58:55 AM »
Tactical preparedness for unlawful purposes?  What?

Didn't ya know that terrorists always walk around open carrying sidearms and singing loudly to attract attention to themselves?
The judge knows it's true because a cop said it under oath. (or maybe a cop's lawyer said it and it sounded good?)
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline Pond Scum

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2015, 09:00:45 AM »
Definite win for police state -- badges allow you to draw a gun on a peaceful person.

Agreed.  This is a sad day for all of us.  Officer Moe's actions on the video demonstrate to me that he has no respect for a law abiding citizen.  Sigh.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline Xpiatio

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2015, 04:34:04 PM »
Anyone up for an open carry barbershop quartet?

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2015, 04:42:19 PM »
Agreed.  This is a sad day for all of us.  Officer Moe's actions on the video demonstrate to me that he has no respect for a law abiding citizen.  Sigh.

Or, to phrase it gently, as if one cop were talking about another cop:
 Sgt. LaBrecque wrote a memorandum to Captain Pete McWatters, Officer Moe’s commander, recommending that Officer Moe "would benefit from some additional training in handling ‘open carry’ issues”
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2015, 10:22:31 PM »
Johann Deffert has posted the following to the MOC fb page. https://www.facebook.com/groups/MichiganOpenCarry/  Since I know some here don't visit there, I thought I'd cross-post it here.

As many of you know I am appealing my case Deffert v. Moe. If you could help me with some support that would be very much appreciated. My case set a very dangerous precedent. We must uphold out right to open carry without bigotry from local police departments. Thank you for your support.

Here's the link to the Johann Deffert legal fund if any of you would like to contribute.

http://www.gofundme.com/w3n4h8

Offline TucTom

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2015, 09:10:16 AM »
Thanks Dan.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2015, 05:04:53 PM »
Hadn't heard that Deffert is dropping the appeal.  Do I get my GoFundMe money back?

The NRA story was incorrect.  The person that wrote that in the news article was wrong.  Apparently they never said they were going to financially assist.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2015, 05:49:54 PM »
So, what sort of 'help' was NRA offering, a staff attorney to assist or replace Deffert's counsel?
Hopefully the OCDO post was inaccurate too.
Earlier this week, the GoFundMe page was still being updated.
http://www.gofundme.com/w3n4h8

Thursday, Steve Dolan was on At Odds, came on at 34 minutes.
Talks about Deffert at 51 minutes.
Compares Deffert case to Northrup case in Sixth Circuit.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 12:21:27 PM by CitizensHaveRights »
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2015, 07:01:37 PM »
What I don't get, is that the Deffert case is being dropped because Northrup established the precedent back in May, yet Deffert lost after Northrup won, even though he cited Northrup as a late appearing precedent.

The timetable is kind of sad:
May, 6th Circuit declares that lawful OC is not grounds for any interference with the OCer.
http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/15a0092p-06.pdf
Deffert asks Judge Neff to use Northrup as controlling precedent.

June, Neff decides against Deffert.
Deffert declares it will be fought in the 6th Circuit, which should slap Neff silly for ignoring their precedent.
A GofundMe is launched to finance the appeal.

July, Deffert's attorney says on talk radio that Deffert chose not to appeal, due to the fact that we already won in Northrup and the loss in Deffert doesn't hurt anybody's rights going forward, so the only gain in appealing would be to watch the 6th Circuit play Hackey-Sack with Neff's professional reputation. But all that was known back in June before the GoFundMe project was launched.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2015, 07:10:27 PM »
GoFundMe doesn't work like Kickstarter where the funding doesn't get charged and distributed unless the recipient reaches his goal, GoFundMe charges right away.  My charge card was charged $100 back on June 10.  Will I get the money back?  One guy contributed $1,000!  Will he get his money back?

People are still contributing to the campaign, one guy just nine hours ago.  Something isn't right here.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2015, 07:37:19 PM »
And the appeal doesn't seem like a total slam-dunk to me.

The one thing a trial judge has going for her is that she heard the testimony and saw the evidence.
Appeals courts are very reluctant to mess with the trial court's findings of fact, even though in this case it appears that Neff accepted every word out of Moe's mouth as pure fact and dismissed every piece of evidence Steve presented as not credible.
She found that the facts showed Deffert to be dangerously loony-toony. In the face of that, can you bring out the video evidence and convince the circuit court of appeals that it's Neff who was f**king nuts, not Deffert?
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline Glock9mmOldStyle

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2015, 12:39:23 PM »
Folks listen to the at odds show titled 'Attorney Steve Dulan, Independence day'

http://atoddsshow.com

In it you will hear Steve Dulan say that his client, Johann has decided not to move forward with the appeal.

Take that for what it is, his lawyer and the NRA's top lawyer in MI. (Mr. Dulan) either making a huge error on the air, or (more likely) repeating what his client has told him. Or I'm just hearing things that aren't there???

Listen for yourself & make your own judgements.
Listen to the whole show to be entertained - or go directly to the 51:00 minute mark. ;)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 01:03:47 PM by Glock9mmOldStyle »
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Offline gryphon

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Re: Judge backs Grand Rapids in Deffert case
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2015, 01:00:32 PM »
I just messaged Johann.  He said that he isn't going to appeal and he is going to keep the money we've donated for his appeal and pay back MCRGO.