Author Topic: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth  (Read 3412 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bigt8261

  • MOC President
  • MOC Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Karma: +27/-28
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc
  • First Name (Displayed): Tom
HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« on: August 19, 2015, 09:26:52 AM »
We want to keep this low key for now, so the forum users here get the first notice.

Yesterday, (8/18) our new preemption teeth bill was formally read into the journal in the House. It was actually introduced back in July, but the House didn't stick around long enough for all of the formalities. This is still earlier than we wanted as the House will only be in session for 3 days this week and then won't be back until the second week of September.

The while the intent of the bill is the same as HB 5500 from last session, some of the language was changed. HB 5500 was good, but there were many improvements we had in mind. This new bill includes most of those improvements.

Say hello to HB 4795
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2015-HB-4795

Remember, please try to keep things low key for now.

Offline gryphon

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3893
  • Karma: +129/-128
  • First Name (Displayed): Dan
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2015, 09:41:27 AM »
Looks good.  The gov or local subordinate unit is held accountable for costs even if they change the law or "rules" before trial.  What's the definition of an elected or appointed official?  School board superintendent?  CADL Board appointee?  The Rapid CEO or BoD?  I assume a Sheriff and Chief of Police qualifies.

Offline gryphon

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3893
  • Karma: +129/-128
  • First Name (Displayed): Dan
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2015, 09:43:49 AM »
Does the MOC board have an idea of the support this will get?

Offline bigt8261

  • MOC President
  • MOC Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Karma: +27/-28
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc
  • First Name (Displayed): Tom
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2015, 10:30:10 AM »
Looks good.  The gov or local subordinate unit is held accountable for costs even if they change the law or "rules" before trial.  What's the definition of an elected or appointed official?  School board superintendent?  CADL Board appointee?  The Rapid CEO or BoD?  I assume a Sheriff and Chief of Police qualifies.

Costs - Yep, this is called mootness. Florida had an issue where LUG's were intentionally changing their ordinances right before a ruling was issued to avoid having to pay the costs. This was something that was missing from 5500.

Definition - I think defining the term would likely narrow it's application. For now, let's leave it broad and see what we can do with it. IMO all of the examples you listed would qualify.

Offline bigt8261

  • MOC President
  • MOC Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Karma: +27/-28
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc
  • First Name (Displayed): Tom
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2015, 10:32:39 AM »
Does the MOC board have an idea of the support this will get?

That's always hard to judge. We've been working for many months to "grease the wheels" and while it's helped, it hasn't helped as much as we would like. If we can at least get a committee hearing, that will be more progress than last session.

We'll start pushing for real in September and see what happens. The Clio case will help too.

Offline bigt8261

  • MOC President
  • MOC Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Karma: +27/-28
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc
  • First Name (Displayed): Tom
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2015, 11:04:39 AM »

Offline CitizensHaveRights

  • Posts: 943
  • Karma: +24/-14
  • First Name (Displayed): Mitch
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2015, 04:23:51 PM »
Gottleib is tired of taking taxpayer dollars. He wants city officials' dollars instead:
http://www.examiner.com/article/gottlieb-pols-should-pay-lawsuit-losses-walters-live-from-saf-hq
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3893
  • Karma: +129/-128
  • First Name (Displayed): Dan
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2015, 05:11:22 PM »
[Larry the Cable Guy] 'At's right. [/Larry the Cable Guy]

Offline bigt8261

  • MOC President
  • MOC Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Karma: +27/-28
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc
  • First Name (Displayed): Tom
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 03:47:11 PM »

Offline gryphon

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3893
  • Karma: +129/-128
  • First Name (Displayed): Dan
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 05:25:31 PM »

Offline bigt8261

  • MOC President
  • MOC Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Karma: +27/-28
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc
  • First Name (Displayed): Tom
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2016, 09:59:54 AM »
LEGISLATIVE ACTION ALERT

HB 4795 (Preemption Enforcement) needs your help!

Please help us contact the committee and urge them to support HB 4795.

Anti-gun local governments don't want to follow a law that makes them respect your rights, and are expected to oppose the bill in committee tomorrow. Many elected representatives thrive on their support from these local entities so they need to hear from you the voter.

Please follow the link and help us tell the House Local Government Committee why this bill is so important.

http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=710075bba75b914b805e1861a&id=1c0dd7ae5f&e=5419d26fa1

Offline Divegeek

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 66
  • Karma: +8/-8
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2016, 02:01:22 PM »
Just made my calls. I was very glad to hear that my Rep. Jason Sheppard is supporting it and the constitutional carry bill.

Offline bigt8261

  • MOC President
  • MOC Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Karma: +27/-28
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc
  • First Name (Displayed): Tom
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2016, 03:04:20 PM »
We were copied on the following email to the House Local Government Committee and given permission to share.

Quote
Dear Member of the House Local Government Committee,

First, thank you for your service to the citizens of Michigan. I am a 25-year practicing attorney in Michigan, was born and raised in Michigan, and have raised my own family here. I do not own any firearms. I am not a member of any advocacy group. But I am a staunch believer in the law and in our unwavering adherence to the law. As an officer of the court here in Michigan I am sworn to uphold the Constitution of the State of Michigan and of the United States. And that includes a paramount rule of law without which we cannot have an orderly system of laws to guide our citizens and institutions in a federal and state system of government – the Supremacy clause / Preemption doctrine.

I have never before urged the passage of any particular legislation but am urging your support for HB 4795. My advocacy for HB 4795 is neither pro-gun nor pro-gun control. Supremacy/preemption is an “issue neutral” legal principle that is critical to allow us citizens and our elected representatives to understand where, and to whom, the debate concerning any substantive issue must be directed for policy-making decisions. What I have seen happening with increasing frequency in the past 10 years are misinformed fellow citizens and our local government officials, including several that I count as personal friends, who do not understand that issues of firearms regulation are governed at the State level. They simply do not understand that attempts at local firearms regulation are legally improper under the principle of Supremacy/Preemption. Many, if not most, local government policy-makers are not trained legal professionals and thus seem to not understand the principle of Supremacy/Preemption. Of course, it is probably true that some have had sound legal counsel but refuse to listen to it and refuse to obey the law by creating local firearms regulations despite their legal nullity. That triggers wasteful conflict and costly litigation, all to the detriment of us citizens.

HB 4795 is necessary to provide local governmental representatives with the type of clear, unambiguous, directive concerning supremacy/preemption that the case law apparently has failed to provide. HB 4795 is plain English that should prevent misinformed errors by local governmental bodies and the resulting wasteful litigation that is a misuse of valuable local resources that are at a premium. HB 4795 – simply by preventing misguided local firearms regulations and the unnecessary and costly litigation it spawns – protects all of us taxpayers. Eliminating any confusion about supremacy/preemption also will , of course, have the significant benefit of protecting law-abiding citizens from the erroneous creation and enforcement of improper local government firearms regulations, and will provide some recourse to law-abiding citizens who are treated illegally by their local governments. It is the latter – a real potential consequence for wrongful actions by government officials – that history shows is important to prevent overreaching by any governmental body and continued liberty for ordinary citizens.

HB 4795 adopts wise policy as a purely legal matter, whether a citizen is “pro-gun” or is “pro-gun control”. It will help citizens understand that their issue advocacy on whatever side they are on, needs to take place solely at the State level. They can leave local officials alone on this issue, so that our local officials can focus their limited time, energy, and resources on other important issues that are within the local government sphere. That advances the ball for everyone.

Thank you for considering my point of view and I appreciate your Service.

Offline gryphon

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3893
  • Karma: +129/-128
  • First Name (Displayed): Dan
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2016, 04:02:05 PM »
Very to the point.  Thanks for posting that, Tom.

Offline TheQ

  • Website Content Manager
  • MOC Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
  • Karma: +591/-37
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
  • First Name (Displayed): Phillip
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2016, 08:44:30 PM »
Super-preemption!
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline bigt8261

  • MOC President
  • MOC Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Karma: +27/-28
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc
  • First Name (Displayed): Tom
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2016, 10:34:18 AM »
HB 4795 UPDATE with video

Yesterday's Committee hearing went well with all of Michigan's gun groups and the NRA submitting great testimony in support. While there was a larger than expected turnout, no municipal organizations testified against the bill, though some did submit cards but didn't wish to speak.

The only opposition testimony came from members of anti-gun groups who were more focused on spewing their 'guns are bad' talking points than actually speaking to the bill before the committee. Nearly every one was interrupted and urged to actually speak about the bill. Most eventually seemed to argue against preemption itself rather than why we should not enforce preemption. All refused to directly answer the question of should we enforce the law.

It is our opinion that the opposition testimony actually helped. The opponents seemed so fanatical that it gave the members of the committee a clear idea of what we are dealing with. We even heard that at least one person questioned the need for the bill until they listened to the antis speak.

The committee will now take the next week to discuss the bill and talk with stakeholders. If things go well, the bill will be brought up for a vote in committee next week. If the bill is passed out of committee it will then head to the Floor where it will await a vote from the full House of Representatives.

Below is the link to the archived video of yesterday's testimony. HB 4795 comes up at about the 20:30 mark. MOC's testimony is at about the 50:30 mark.

http://www.house.mi.gov/MHRPublic/PlayVideoArchive.html?video=LOCA-021016.mp4

Offline CitizensHaveRights

  • Posts: 943
  • Karma: +24/-14
  • First Name (Displayed): Mitch
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2016, 09:53:17 PM »
We even heard that at least one person questioned the need for the bill until they listened to the antis speak.

LOL.

That person probably thought they had a very logical point:
Why should we pass a law requiring people to obey the law?
Answer: because there exist people like the progtards you just heard testimony from.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3893
  • Karma: +129/-128
  • First Name (Displayed): Dan
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2016, 09:33:41 PM »
Finally had a chance to watch the entire hearing.  Awesome job by MOC and Dulan and the NRA guy.  Brundage and the doctors against evil guns were attacking preemption, not the bill.  And Hartwell, you moron, cities can get sued now.

Oh, and Jeremy Moss is a weasel.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 01:53:36 AM by gryphon »

Offline bigt8261

  • MOC President
  • MOC Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Karma: +27/-28
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc
  • First Name (Displayed): Tom
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2016, 09:10:49 AM »
*** LEGISLATIVE ACTION ALERT ***

HB 4795 (Preemption Enforcement) To Get Vote!

WEDNESDAY, May 4th @ Noon, HB 4795 (Chatfield - 107th) will be heard again in the House Local Government Committee. The bill is expected to receive a vote from the committee and your help is needed.

MDA is ramping up their lies and rhetoric to stop this bill. A win for HB 4795 will be a big loss for MDA and Bloomberg.

http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=710075bba75b914b805e1861a&id=38161d5bd3&e=5419d26fa1

Offline Divegeek

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 66
  • Karma: +8/-8
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
Re: HB 4795 - Preemption Teeth
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2016, 09:26:48 AM »
I just called Jason Sheppard's office. He's my rep, and is on the committee. I received good news, he is planning on supporting it and the gentleman that answered the phone guessed which bill I was calling about because he had received several phone calls in support in the last 48 hours.  :)