Author Topic: How do we address a problem like this?  (Read 64397 times)

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Offline freediver

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How do we address a problem like this?
« on: October 26, 2015, 10:18:27 AM »
Here's a current example of something we, the gun owners, might want to think about addressing:

http://news.yahoo.com/south-carolina-police-stumble-upon-massive-cache-7-132518632.html

Offline Divegeek

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2015, 10:38:41 AM »
What's to address? The police arrested him and he will go to trial and be convicted. From what I read he wasn't selling them, just stockpiling them. If you have specific info about others like this then I recommend that you contact the local police and let them address the issue.

Offline thamm

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2015, 11:07:49 AM »
He got around background checks through the gun theft loophole...

Offline part deux

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2015, 11:38:04 AM »
address what?

There are no legal limits to the number of legally owned firearms?

If those firearms are not legally owned, then he broke existing laws and will face the consequences.

If you feel this is a problem, please articulate your position and provide a clear solution.

Offline TheQ

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2015, 11:41:38 AM »
I know! I know!

Let's mandate that everyone who owns a gun must keep it in a government approved safe. It must never leave the safe unless government approval is secured in advance.

What do I win?

/sarc
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline Divegeek

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2015, 12:20:08 PM »
You know the funny thing, is I have read about this story in 3 different news outlets and they never talk about ammo. This guy had 7000+ guns, but didn't have vast amounts of ammo? Seems weird.

The guy seems like the underpants gnomes from South Park.

Step 1 - steal underpants
Step 2
Step 3 - Profits

He seems to have forgotten the step where you either need to use or sell the stolen goods to make profits.

Offline TheQ

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2015, 02:04:49 PM »
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline TucTom

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2015, 03:32:38 PM »
I want to agree with the above responses.

freediver, what is it you see that "we" as gun owners should do?

Offline Divegeek

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2015, 03:35:08 PM »
I want to agree with the above responses.

freediver, what is it you see that "we" as gun owners should do?
Just look at his ramblings in the other thread that he started: Total registration, mandatory safe storage, universal background checks, liability insurance, etc, etc.

Offline TheQ

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2015, 03:38:26 PM »

I want to agree with the above responses.

freediver, what is it you see that "we" as gun owners should do?

Isn't the answer obvious? From freediver's past posts he think "we" gun owners should support calls for more gun control!
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Offline TucTom

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2015, 04:22:12 PM »
Isn't the answer obvious? From freediver's past posts he think "we" gun owners should support calls for more gun control!

Oh yeah thats right. From the very first post too, no pretending by freediver (except to be pro gun).

Offline freediver

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2015, 07:38:11 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen: Many of our discussions on this forum have revolved around the current firearms regulatory system and whether it needs revamping. So let's review for a minute.

The situation here is that we have a convicted felon with a lengthy record who managed to get his hands on a firearm (system failure #1). Not only did he managed to get his hand on one firearm, he managed to get his hands on 7-10,000 firearms (system failures #2-10,000). Initial estimates are that 99% of the weapons and other goods are stolen (system failure #3). It was only by sheer luck that the authorities stumbled across this cache of weapons (system failure #4).

In other threads writers have pointed out that most of the mass shooters in this country obtained their weapons legally (system failure #5).

Now, we can dwell on semantics and euphemisms such as gun regulation, gun control, or any other words we would like to use. No matter how you describe it, we have a problem with gun ownership and usage in this country. We have firearms deaths that outnumber traffic deaths. Many portions of our cities continue to be dangerous to both cops and ordinary citizens because there is an unchecked flow of firearms into the hands of criminals. Guns continue to flow south across the border in exchange for drugs. The mental health system is uncoupled from the firearms background check system. Nearly 224,000 guns are lost or stolen every year. Gun owners continue to sell guns privately to straw buyers or other persons who shouldn't have guns. We have people who buy and carry firearms with no training or no real understanding of how these things work. They are a public safety hazard by their ignorance. Call it what you want. But our gun environment in this country is messed up, and is not getting better.

Yes, on other threads I've mentioned some solutions: mandatory firearms training and licensing, liability for gun owners for proper locked storage, holding law enforcement officers accountable, tracking gun serial numbers to combat gun trafficking and criminal acts, fully funding the ATF to do their job. I don't claim to have all the answers. Certainly there are other solutions out there. If you don't like my ideas, come up with some of your own. But existing in denial and saying no to any and all solutions is not the way forward.

Here's my biggest concern:change from without. Guns don't flow from liberal gun haters to criminals and crazies. They come from us, the gun owners. This is our "sport", our passion, our section of society. We are the ones responsible for policing ourselves. As in every other situation, if we don't police ourselves, then that policing will come from outside the community. Given the rampant dysfunction of the GOP these days there is a better than average chance that the Dems will win the White House. Public opinion continues to swell against firearms and the media isn't helping. So, we can either take the lead and make changes from within that actually work, or we can dig in our heels and allow change to happen from without. We might not like that result.

Offline TheQ

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2015, 08:34:53 PM »
TLDR blah blah more gun control. It kind of gets old, dude.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline part deux

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2015, 09:21:13 PM »
Bloomberg's groups would be more to your liking.

Your solution to a felon committing a felony is to make more laws restricting honest law abiding citizens.

This is getting old.

Offline thamm

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2015, 09:30:50 PM »
Mr. Freediver,

As was previously pointed out to you, nearly 2/3 off all firearm deaths are intentionally SELF-INFLICTED. I don't believe that more background checks, mandatory training, and mandatory gun storage laws will prevent people from killing themselves.

Offline linux203

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2015, 09:52:53 PM »
Freediver, thank you for pointing out that criminals will engage in criminal behavior.  We address the problem of wanton disregard of the law by removing the person from society.  Rehabilitation has failed.

We don't address the complete disregard of the legal system of a few by subjecting law-abiding citizens to undue burden.
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline Ultra

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2015, 10:16:42 PM »
I don't see any problem.  I'm having a hard time with that characterization.

Criminal got caught.  Laws worked.  Claiming there is a problem where there isn't.....

Crying wolf!

Isn't that nursery rhyme intend to teach young children the consequences of believing in those who tell stories with ulterior motives?

It sure is, Aesop.

Nothing to see here.  Move along.
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Offline freediver

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2015, 11:54:01 PM »
Mr thamm: Firearms deaths run about 33K a year. Of those, homicides make up roughly 1/3, accidental shootings 1/3, suicides 1/3. Just keeping the numbers straight.

Mr linux203: undue burden? That your fellow citizens ask you to demonstrate your competency before they entrust you with a deadly weapon? Please! I would think that you would be comfortable earning the trust of your fellow citizens. If doing a few simple things places undue burden, I hate to think how life's other challenges might stress you out. If you are that easily derailed, perhaps you shouldn't be packing a gun.

Mr ultra: criminal was caught by pure blind luck. As I said in my lengthy post that Mr TheQ found too long to read, we have a fundamental system failure. Several, actually. As far as Aesop, if you remember the whole story, you'll remember that in the end the wolf did show up and assault the whole flock. Spoiler alert: we're not the wolf or the boy.

Go Mets!

Offline thamm

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2015, 09:09:25 AM »
Mr thamm: Firearms deaths run about 33K a year. Of those, homicides make up roughly 1/3, accidental shootings 1/3, suicides 1/3. Just keeping the numbers straight.

False. Table 18 from the CDC statistics you cited previously.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

Total firearm deaths 33,636
Suicides 21,175 = 62.95%
Homicides 11,208 = 33.32%
Unintentional 505 = 1.50%
Legal Intervention/War 467 = 1.39%
Undetermined 281 = 0.84%

Offline Ultra

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Re: How do we address a problem like this?
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2015, 09:33:51 AM »
If it was blind luck, that merely speaks to shoddy police work. Shocking, isn't it? Yet still, the criminal is caught.

Imagine that.

  Passing more laws that are subjected to enforcement by shoddy police is creating more problems while solving none.  There isn't a problem here.  Hence, your "solutions" are the problem.

Your inability to perceive that you are spamming this forum with these views speaks to your inability to perceive what is and isn't a problem. Partners in the same dance.
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