Gun Control - What do you propose?

[MI_XD]

Mr gryphon: I have proposed specific solutions, many times. If you need to refresh your memory, please go back and re-read the threads.

You may have proposed specific solutions, BUT, those have been debunked. MANY TIMES

[freediver]

Mr MI_XD: It's true, SOME of them have been debunked,and I have learned from the exchange. But many of them have been shouted down, not for any rational reasons, but simply emotional ones. I've presented data and detailed solutions, most of which are ignored and replaced by hatred, vitriol, personal attacks, and threats.

[gryphon]

Constitutional reasons are not "emotional" reasons.

[bigt8261]

Mr MI_XD: It's true, SOME of them have been debunked,and I have learned from the exchange. But many of them have been shouted down, not for any rational reasons, but simply emotional ones. I've presented data and detailed solutions, most of which are ignored and replaced by hatred, vitriol, personal attacks, and threats.

I have seen zero data. Just because you say something does not make it data.

[CharleyVCU1988]

Freediver, you keep saying "refer back to my previous posts"

yet you have no problem expounding energy just to say either that or anything along the lines of "something must be done" or delineating training requirements or such.

Stop being evasive.

[doesch]

Agree; if it was "previously stated" cutting and pasting does not seem like such an issue especially if it will save lives. All I'm hearing are the "do something" ramblings of someone with 0 real solutions.

[freediver]

Mr bigT and mr Charley: I'm not being evasive. I have expounded at length in other threads about possible solutions. Some of them were negated by some solid reasoning, and I learned from that discussion. But most of them were shouted down not by reason, by fact, or by logic, but with name calling, lies, and threats. If YOU need any further explanation of the solutions I've proposed, YOU can go through the other threads and educate yourself. I'm not going to waste people's time or pull one of my typing muscles trying to make you happy.

[bigt8261]

I found one of your posts where you suggested a numbered list of items. While none of your items were supported with even a single citation or reference, I included at least one in every one of my rebuttals. Your response was essentially to ignore everything I said. If it's a conversation you want, then you need to participate.

[freediver]

My bigT: if you felt ignored, I apologize. That was not my intent. For every post of mine, there are 6-7 or more in reply. I simply do not have the time to answer them all. Especially when they devolve into childish name calling as so many of your cohorts and you have done. If you want to talk issues, I welcome that. You want to call people names, go find a school playground.

While we're on the subject of response, I want to respond to your postings of my personal Facebook entries. For starters, what I post on my FB page is really none of your GD business! As per the constitutionally protected first amendment right, I can post whatever I want, as long as I am not harming or proposing harm to anyone. The first amendment is a cornerstone of our free society and trumps every other right. So butt out. Second, none of my posts are anti-gun or anti-open carry. They are a call for reasonableness, for sanity, for finding a way forward and fixing the issue of gun violence. If you don't like my FB posts, fine. Don't read them. But don't for a minute try to censor me. That in itself is a form of tyranny.

[bigt8261]

Your faulty understanding of the First Amendment compliments your faulty understanding of the Second Amendment (and others).

[mosnar87]

Your faulty understanding of the First Amendment compliments your faulty understanding of the Second Amendment (and others).

Looks like we've got another one who doesn't understand that the first amendment protects the people from government censorship, not from individuals or non-government organizations. 

[freediver]

Right. But for a group who espouses the defense of constitutional rights and a free society, there are many individuals here who would like it otherwise. This "my way or the highway mentality" is just another form of tyranny. It just happens to be YOUR tyranny.

[m.marino]

Freediver,

A point on this. In order for it to be Tyranny, it must be forced on another with option or choice. Let's look at some items. Member's of MOC help new members and each other stay within the social law (those laws that are the legal fabric and framework of Michaigan, probably more properly called civil law)  of Michigan while carrying a firearm. They openly state their position and advocacy. We don't try to force others to accept our views and as any responsible group give attention to those who would harm the natural right to self defense and the right to bear arms.

Please explain how that is Tyranny? Yes we lobby so does the socialist who wants to get rid of the constitution completely and with it severely limit free speech. Please explain why you are using that word and position.

Michael

[freediver]

mr m.marino: I wouldn't claim that you have espoused a close-minded view. On the contrary, I have enjoyed our exchanges. Let's just say that there are plenty of other participants in these forums who do have a "my way or the highway" view of these issues. When I've presented factual arguments that run counter to their belief system, out comes the name calling and the personal attacks. They wish to force their particular view of unfettered, irresponsible gun ownership on us all and would like to stifle any and all debate. I've been told to shut up, leave, that I'm naive, misguided, stupid, brainwashed, I should drink bleach, and other unsavory comments. I find that just as tyrannical as the unbridled socialists who want everything their way (gun-haters or Greenpeace for example). Balance and compromise are the watchwords here.

And we don't need to compromise just to "do something". Our gun regulatory environment is broken, as evidenced by the gun violence that plagues our society. We need to work with our fellow citizens to find ways to make gun regulation that is effective in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the crazies. and the merely stupid.

[bigt8261]

Right. But for a group who espouses the defense of constitutional rights and a free society, there are many individuals here who would like it otherwise. This "my way or the highway mentality" is just another form of tyranny. It just happens to be YOUR tyranny.

The leadership of this organization supports the ability of private property owners to be able to make their own decisions. Even if that means banning guns. You see, that's not what the 2A protects against, nor does one's 2A protected right trample another's private property rights. Hint, the 1A works the same way.

[gryphon]

I've been told I should drink bleach

I see that you have stated that at least five times, but I find no evidence of anyone telling you to drink bleach.

[Redwingsrule6971]

I see that you have stated that at least five times, but I find no evidence of anyone telling you to drink bleach.

He must be confusing comments from another group's forum. Apparently they enjoy his expounded upon and expounded upon and expounded upon thoughts as well as we do.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Ultra]

You haven't presented a factual argument. Not once on this forum. Others have cited as much to you, in this thread, and still you don't get it.


Gentlemen, as the PTB seem to enjoy being in the role of Sisyphus here with the resident Soros plant, my parting bit of advice:

Don't feed the troll.

[LD]

As stated over on MGO, isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing  over & over and expecting a different outcome?

You admit that our system of gun laws isn't working and yet you want more of the same.

I propose we rescind ALL restrictive gun laws and concentrate on "What makes these people kill or even shoot other people"?

We KNOW background checks don't & can't stop or predict violent behavior so why do you think more will help?

Prohibiting felons or mentally ill people from owning guns is like prohibiting red haired people from owning them.
It may allow someone that was inclined to shoot others to be charged with another crime but doesn't stop any of them.

Gun laws just don't work, we MUST find another way.
Abandon your quest to eliminate guns in the world and think out of the box for awhile.   

[CitizensHaveRights]

But...but...we're facing an EPIDEMIC of gun violence, and it's all the fault of the gun owners!

Oops...
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/12/robert-farago/random-thoughts-about-the-risk-of-being-shot-to-death/