Author Topic: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats  (Read 47420 times)

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Offline drtodd

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2010, 09:12:58 PM »
The law is as it states... a cpl provides an exemption for the charge of "carrying a firearm in on the premises of a prohibited place"
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 01:22:10 AM by drtodd »
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2010, 07:36:53 PM »
All I'm really suggesting is that he just show up, armed, and just mil through the crowds, we protest simply by being there.  We would be sending a message to witz, and his ilk that they can't stop us, and we would be showing the public that we are safe, and there is nothing wrong with carrying, and that it actually makes them dafer, and best of all we would be rubbing witz's smug smarmy nose in it.

Offline BTAvery

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2010, 12:05:01 PM »
I don't know if I will be able to go but if I can I probably will and only pay to get in don't buy anything.

Offline fozzy71

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2010, 02:58:12 PM »
Most of their profits come from parking.  Good luck parking for free.   :P

Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2010, 04:00:02 PM »
I don't know if I will be able to go but if I can I probably will and only pay to get in don't buy anything.

Most of their profits come from parking.  Good luck parking for free.   :P

If you show up Friday September 3rd before 5PM you can get in free, as for parking Royal Oak is only controlling parking for a 1 mile radius around Arts Beats And Eats, if you park a mile, or more away, and walk in he can park for free wherever you can find a space, a mile isn't really all that far, and besides the walk could do us good.  Theres no reason to give witz a penny. ;D

Offline ghostrider

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2010, 05:21:13 PM »
Thinking that showing up and not spending any money is not supporting them in some way is rationalizing. By just showing up, you demonstrate to others that it is, “the place to be.” That in turn encourages others to attend and spend money. It’s a catch 22. Show up and demonstrate that there is nothing to fear from people carrying guns, while giving support to the enemy. Don’t show up, and we loose an opportunity to put to rest their fears.

Show up just to, “rub their noses in it.”, and your just what the anti’s claim we are.

Offline dknight16

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2010, 09:42:11 PM »
I'm finding the spiteful tone of this thread puzzling. MOC won. Nothing else needs to be done. MOC won.. Organizers tried to enforce an illegal rule. MOC rightfully challenged and won.  We want to follow up on that by acting out? Makes no sense to me.  I will be going CC. 2 people I am going with have no idea I have CC'd for the entire time I have known them. I'm not going to be provocative at AB&E simply because I can. But I am extremely grateful to those involved here at MOC that fixed an injustice.  See you at the event whether you show up OC or not.

Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2010, 11:00:47 PM »
I'm finding the spiteful tone of this thread puzzling. MOC won. Nothing else needs to be done. MOC won.. Organizers tried to enforce an illegal rule. MOC rightfully challenged and won.  We want to follow up on that by acting out? Makes no sense to me.  I will be going CC. 2 people I am going with have no idea I have CC'd for the entire time I have known them. I'm not going to be provocative at AB&E simply because I can. But I am extremely grateful to those involved here at MOC that fixed an injustice.  See you at the event whether you show up OC or not.


By not showing up what was accomplished?  If we had lost we wouldn't have been able to carry, not going would also result in our obviously not being there carrying, so what did we accomplish?  It kindof reminds me of a person who complains that they were not invited to a party, then when there finally invited, they don't show up.

The spite comes from the fact that witz is a **SELF CENSORED** sucking **SELF CENSORED**, and so are his ilk.  They are also trying to do a back door ban through the MLCC, and he's trying to campaign against our rights, and outright lies on Arts Beats And Eats's website.  That's why I plan on protesting by OCing there.

Offline TheQ

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2010, 11:28:55 PM »
By not showing up what was accomplished?  If we had lost we wouldn't have been able to carry, not going would also result in our obviously not being there carrying, so what did we accomplish?  It kindof reminds me of a person who complains that they were not invited to a party, then when there finally invited, they don't show up.

The spite comes from the fact that witz is a **SELF CENSORED** sucking **SELF CENSORED**, and so are his ilk.  They are also trying to do a back door ban through the MLCC, and he's trying to campaign against our rights, and outright lies on Arts Beats And Eats's website.  That's why I plan on protesting by OCing there.

I think the idea, which I agree with is something along these lines.  If you normally go out places and open carry AND you were planning to go to Art's Beats and Eats OR you have a genuine interest in going (aside from the controversy) then by all means, go and openly carry your sidearm.  But you/we should not go if our only reason is to:
  • Prove a point
  • Show that we won and rub the anti's noses in it
When you grew up playing board games, didn't your mother teach you it's not nice to gloat and that you should be a "graceful winner"?  If you want to go to AB&E, then go.  But what value is there for us or our cause by holding an organized gathering where the event organizers have stated we aren't welcome?

Here are listed the objectives of MOC:
  • To educate and desensitize the public and members of the law enforcement community about the legality of the open carry of a handgun in public.
  • To exercise a natural right to self defense using the most efficient and common tool, a handgun.
  • To demonstrate to the public at large that gun owners are one of the most lawful segments of society and they have nothing to fear from the lawful carry of a firearm.
  • To protect our right to self-defense.

How does organizing at this event help meet these objectives of our mission?

When I carry, I try hard to be very respectful to the people I talk to.  More respectful than I'd be otherwise.  I try hard to set a good image.  I believe our leaders and prominent members (such as Scott) are also very respectful in their approach.  Some of the more respected members have asked us not to organize at this event.

I'd now ask each of you planning to attend: why are you going?  Be honest.

Are you going to show that we won and to show that to each and every person, and help their resentment build?
Are you going because you want to have a good time with your friends and family and you'll just be happening to carry your sidearm responsibility & safely while you do so?

If you're reason is like the former, please, consider staying home.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline emt805

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2010, 12:20:53 AM »

How does organizing at this event help meet these objectives of our mission?

  • To demonstrate to the public at large that gun owners are one of the most lawful segments of society and they have nothing to fear from the lawful carry of a firearm.

They all fear that those who oc will cause problems and be non responsable, By attending and not rubbing their face in it we can show them that we were not looking for a fight and they there will be no incident with those that oc and they will have to worry about the drunks and others. Also to prove witz wrong on the lies that he has brought up against us

Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2010, 03:48:14 AM »

How does organizing at this event help meet these objectives of our mission?

  • To demonstrate to the public at large that gun owners are one of the most lawful segments of society and they have nothing to fear from the lawful carry of a firearm.

They all fear that those who oc will cause problems and be non responsable, By attending and not rubbing their face in it we can show them that we were not looking for a fight and they there will be no incident with those that oc and they will have to worry about the drunks and others. Also to prove witz wrong on the lies that he has brought up against us

Exactly my point, the only faces I want to rub it in to is witz, and the other antis.  How are we supposed to "demonstrate to the public at large that gun owners are one of the most lawful segments of society and they have nothing to fear from the lawful carry of a firearm" if we all go hide in a closet?  People will be looking for us there, and we should make sure that they find us and see that despite what witz, and his ilk say, and what the media has repeated we are not running around shooting at random people, or even sacrificing virgins, or whatever other bull that's been beat into there heads.  Were just normal people that happen to be armed.

Offline CrossPistols

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2010, 06:02:18 AM »
  I'm just curious? How many People would have gone to this A.B.& E if it had never made the news? I for one never heard of this event. Now had I heard of it before when the event were in Pontiac I would have not gone simply because I try to stay out of Dangerous Places. Now if this event were in Royal oak for the past 12 years,  I still would not have gone simply because my home city has a drunk fest with music every year and I don't go to that one, so why would I drive 40 miles to see the same thing.  Now all that being said...I don't believe other than us there will be people who were already intent on going who will be even remotely looking for us. I feel it will be the last thing on their minds. I think the media will be expecting us to show, but I think their primary reports will be on turn out, and covering the many different A.B.& E.  I think If you were intending to go then go, if not then don't worry about it, are efforts were legitimate, and we accomplished exactly what OUR group is about...Educating the Public on the Right to Open Carry in Michigan.  If you think about it we did a great service to the City of R.O, by informing them of a Violation of the Law, if it had not been for MOC they could have been subject to a Law suit by any unsuspecting Law Biding Citizen who was not aware of their Ban. The previous Opinion was just that and nothing more! Carry On!  ;D
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Offline emt805

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2010, 06:48:25 AM »
Right but because of this event and the twist the media put on it alot of people against legal carry see us as gun toting bully type. Showing up and educating them that we are just like them though less harmful and are not gunslingers but normal people who choose to defend ourselves if needed.

Offline JoeCar

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2010, 07:05:22 AM »
I'm going to desensitize the public to my Art 1 Sec. 6 Right... for the defense of myself and the State. I'm bringing my wife and 15 year old daughter while I oc. Showing with your family softens the supposed stereotype look of a man with a gun. I'm going for the fun of it. The good reports of our behavior, similar to other past public events across the state will cause us to shine in the public's eye. That's my take on it, anyways.

Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2010, 03:14:33 PM »
Right but because of this event and the twist the media put on it alot of people against legal carry see us as gun toting bully type. Showing up and educating them that we are just like them though less harmful and are not gunslingers but normal people who choose to defend ourselves if needed.

My point exactly, you can't educate the public unless your there, the fact that it will make wiltz, and his ilk have a hissy fit is just a bonus.

Offline ocdetroit

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2010, 07:01:28 PM »
Diddo. If others just mine there own bus. and just have fun, everything will be alright.
Open carry in Detroit
With both of them.

Offline RandyK

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2010, 11:01:37 PM »
My point exactly, you can't educate the public unless your there, the fact that it will make wiltz, and his ilk have a hissy fit is just a bonus.

If you truley believe this, then edit some of your previous negative posts. Like the big red letters that say WAR!

Offline BTAvery

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2010, 11:54:42 PM »
TheQ has a valid point if you intend to "Flaunt" it then don't go but if you have actual interest then go. For example I went about 3 or 4 years ago when it was in Pontiac and was scaried shitless (not a nice place, No offence) but had a great time with all the weird stuff I found. If I have it off work and my dad is up for going I might go with him or maybe my mom IDK yet but I have an actual interest in the event. Also I OC because i'm only 18 although once I'm 21 will be taking my CPL class so I can actually OC anywhere.

Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2010, 03:10:41 AM »
My point exactly, you can't educate the public unless your there, the fact that it will make wiltz, and his ilk have a hissy fit is just a bonus.

If you truley believe this, then edit some of your previous negative posts. Like the big red letters that say WAR!

I put that in there, because that's what I see witz's actions as.  Also I can't seem to figure out how to edit my posts .

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Rally at Arts Beats And Eats
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2010, 09:46:08 AM »
I am fairly certain non members cannot edit posts.
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."