Author Topic: Confronted in Parchment....  (Read 14300 times)

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Offline Lonewolf0714

  • Posts: 33
Confronted in Parchment....
« on: August 10, 2010, 09:58:27 PM »
I stopped at a gas station in Parchment, Michigan today to buy a cold drink. While entering the store an individual started to yell something at me in a rude tone. So, I turned to addess the gentleman who spoke to me and this is how the convesation went...The individual says "Hey, are you a cop"...I say "No". So now  Im thinking Im going to get a bunch of questions about Open Carry. To my suprise he says " Your gun handle is showing". I respond to say "I know, I am Oc'ing". He says, "I am a LEO" and you have got to cover that up". I respond by saying "I dont have to cover it up because Open Carry is legal in Michigan". He says "Do you have a permit to Open Carry that thing like that?" I say, "I dont need a permit to carry like this." His response was "Someone might call 911 if you go in there like that." I say, "Someone might" and then I turn and enter the store. I can see out the window while standing in line that he has started to talk on his cell phone to someone so I assume that he has called LE. I exit the store and enter my vehicle to see a LEO sitting across the street from me. I then start to drive down the road and sure enough he pulls me over. He approaches my vehicle and says "Hi, My name is......" I then say "Hi, My name is.....and I have a CPL and I also have my firearm on me , just so you are aware". "O.K." he says, I then give him my CPL and DL and then I say to him "That was pretty rude of that officer to do that to me". He says "What happened back there?" I tell him how I was confronted by the Officer and how he harrased me about my gun. I then look in my side mirror and see the off duty LEO is pulling up behind us and stopping in the street. I then say "That's him right there, Is he harassing me?" The LEO then says "No Sir, He is not harassing you." So I then say, "O.K.  can you then please explain to him that OC'ing is legal and that I have not commited a crime. The LEO says, "Yes sir, I can do that for you." The LEO then explains to the off duty LEO that I am legal and I have not commited a crime. The off duty LEO then speeds off in his mini van never to be seen again, LOL.  The LEO then runs my DL and CPL. Afterwards he comes back to my vehichle and says " I dont need your registration or proof of insurance sir." He then said to me "Sir, It is your Constitutional Right to keep and bear arms and that if i went into Scooter D's with a loaded shotgun and sat it on the table and ordered breakfast that there would be nothing that LE could do because it also is Open Carry. He then Stated to me "That The Supreme Court would back me up on it too". He then says "Im sorry about this sir." We then converse for a moment and then we go our seperate ways. I must say that the LEO that pulled me over was very proffesional and polite. I am pleased with this encounter, and pleased to see he supports the Constitution. I must say "Congratulations to Parchment" for a job well done. I must admit, I did not know we can Open Carry Shotguns/Rifles because when I see information concerning Open Carry it always concerns a pistol. I will have to check this information to verify it is correct before I go down to Scooter D's.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2010, 10:16:45 PM »
Nice!  ;D
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline JoeCar

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2010, 10:32:46 PM »
What a great encounter! It would of been nice to hear it from you voice recorder.

Offline lil_freak_66

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2010, 01:33:11 AM »
that if i went into Scooter D's with a loaded shotgun and sat it on the table and ordered breakfast that there would be nothing that LE could do because it also is Open Carry.

Somebody did that with an AK47 after the second amendment march at a resturaunt,but it was against the wall instead.

Id personally like to one day see where we can make that commonplace again.
My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of  Michigan Open Carry Inc, any other organization, group, person or the law of this or any other municipality,state or country unless otherwise stated.

Offline ken243

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2010, 05:03:55 AM »
The off duty LEO is just another shinning example of a bad cop. Rather than listen to what you have to say then research the info himself to find it to be true, he abuses his profession. Then, once being told yet again he is wrong by the on-duty LEO he speeds away in a fit rather than apologize and admit he was wrong. Two opportunities for that officer to learn and he chose not to.  :-\ Maybe he needs to be trained to say, "Would you like fries with that?".
Common sense, isn't.
I can't fix stupid.

Offline FatboyCykes

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2010, 05:48:26 AM »
If he's such a big supporter of the Constitution and OC, why were you pulled over?

Offline ghostrider

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2010, 11:45:37 AM »
If he's such a big supporter of the Constitution and OC, why were you pulled over?
Exactly.

This doesn't sound like a good encounter to me.

The officer who pulled you over targeted you, stalked you, and then harassed you.

What reason did he claim he pulled you over for?

This is totally unacceptable.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2010, 12:23:27 PM »
The problem is we don't know what the off duty LEO told the dispatcher... the OP would have to FOIA that information.

It could be that he lied and said the OP was doing something other than just OCing...
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline Bronson

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2010, 12:43:45 PM »
I'm wondering if the "off-duty" officer was an actual officer or if he was a reserve or volunteer.

Bronson
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

Offline ghostrider

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2010, 01:46:12 PM »
I'm wondering if the "off-duty" officer was an actual officer or if he was a reserve or volunteer.

Bronson
Yep. Me too.

Offline Lonewolf0714

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2010, 04:14:32 PM »
When he asked me if I had a permit to carry that thing like that I told him I dont need a permit, therefor, I think he assumed I did not have a licsense to carry concealed and based on the fact he had seen me exit and enter my vehicle, I think he may have told dispatch that I did not  have a permit to conceal carry just to be an ass.  To be honest I dont know what he told them. Its the only thing I could think of that would give the officer a reason to stop me. Unless he made something up. I wonder if I could get the information concerning the 911 or dispatch call that he made. I could have been a real dick to the LEO but I felt because he got a complaint call he had the right to investigate. Remember, He never asked for any information such as DL, CPL Insurance, or Registration. I willfully gave my ID and CPL because I thought I knew what the off duty LEO did to me. The uniformed Officer just wanted to know what the confrontation was about. As soon as I told him I was rudely confronted over the Open Carry of my firearm, He was completely on my side. I felt he was more than happy to inform the off duty LEO of my Right to carry. We could organize for breakfast at Scooter D's. Maybe a litter pick up in the City or Park if anyone is local. It would be awesome if we could put Parchment on the news for the Open Carry of our Rifles or Shotguns at Scooter D's.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2010, 04:17:22 PM »
You need to FOIA the 911 call and all dispatch audio related to the call.
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline Lonewolf0714

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2010, 05:22:53 PM »
Good advice! Im going to try that thursday. I will have to update this post when I get the information.

Offline FatboyCykes

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2010, 06:03:26 PM »
I'd encourage it, however, do know that there will be a charge for the information.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2010, 06:07:49 PM »
We have a FOIA letter template available here http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php?topic=26.0
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline ghostrider

  • Posts: 36
Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2010, 06:29:33 PM »
When he asked me if I had a permit to carry that thing like that I told him I dont need a permit, therefor, I think he assumed I did not have a licsense to carry concealed and based on the fact he had seen me exit and enter my vehicle, I think he may have told dispatch that I did not  have a permit to conceal carry just to be an ass.  To be honest I dont know what he told them. Its the only thing I could think of that would give the officer a reason to stop me. Unless he made something up. I wonder if I could get the information concerning the 911 or dispatch call that he made. I could have been a real dick to the LEO but I felt because he got a complaint call he had the right to investigate. Remember, He never asked for any information such as DL, CPL Insurance, or Registration. I willfully gave my ID and CPL because I thought I knew what the off duty LEO did to me. The uniformed Officer just wanted to know what the confrontation was about. As soon as I told him I was rudely confronted over the Open Carry of my firearm, He was completely on my side. I felt he was more than happy to inform the off duty LEO of my Right to carry. We could organize for breakfast at Scooter D's. Maybe a litter pick up in the City or Park if anyone is local. It would be awesome if we could put Parchment on the news for the Open Carry of our Rifles or Shotguns at Scooter D's.
Asking the acting officer for his reasonable suspicion for stopping you is not, "being a real dick". It is a professional requirement for them to have it to stop you in the first place, and most officers who are on the up and up will tell you the reason for stooping you before anything else.

Just last week I was pulled over. The officer was quite professional. As soon as he reached my window, I stated,"I must inform you that I am licensed by the state of Michigan to carry a concealed pistol,...", and before I could get any further he said," and your armed. Well I must tell you I am officer... with the MSP, and I pulled you over for ..."

I respect your right to conduct matters in the way which you choose however, to say that this was a good encounter without knowing all the facts is premature.

Offline Bronson

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2010, 08:00:31 PM »
I willfully gave my ID and CPL because I thought I knew what the off duty LEO did to me.

You did the right thing by disclosing immediately.  You were driving and you were stopped by an officer and the law REQUIRES us to immediately disclose when stopped by an officer.

MCL 28.425f

Bronson

« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 02:10:41 AM by Bronson »
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

Offline Lonewolf0714

  • Posts: 33
Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2010, 09:50:44 PM »
I appreciate everyones advice and Thanks to Autosurgeon for the FOIA example letter. I will have to keep that in my records for future use if needed.

Offline Evil Creamsicle

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2010, 06:43:52 PM »
that if i went into Scooter D's with a loaded shotgun and sat it on the table and ordered breakfast that there would be nothing that LE could do because it also is Open Carry.

Somebody did that with an AK47 after the second amendment march at a resturaunt,but it was against the wall instead.

Id personally like to one day see where we can make that commonplace again.


Slightly off-topic, but that was my AK-47  ;)

Although, there was a shotgun in the same corner.
Once armed, a free man can never be disarmed. Only defeated.

Offline Gabriel

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Re: Confronted in Parchment....
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2010, 02:59:08 PM »
I stopped at a gas station in Parchment, Michigan today to buy a cold drink. While entering the store an individual started to yell something at me in a rude tone. So, I turned to addess the gentleman who spoke to me and this is how the convesation went...The individual says "Hey, are you a cop"...I say "No". So now  Im thinking Im going to get a bunch of questions about Open Carry. To my suprise he says " Your gun handle is showing". I respond to say "I know, I am Oc'ing". He says, "I am a LEO" and you have got to cover that up". I respond by saying "I dont have to cover it up because Open Carry is legal in Michigan". He says "Do you have a permit to Open Carry that thing like that?" I say, "I dont need a permit to carry like this." His response was "Someone might call 911 if you go in there like that." I say, "Someone might" and then I turn and enter the store. I can see out the window while standing in line that he has started to talk on his cell phone to someone so I assume that he has called LE. I exit the store and enter my vehicle to see a LEO sitting across the street from me. I then start to drive down the road and sure enough he pulls me over. He approaches my vehicle and says "Hi, My name is......" I then say "Hi, My name is.....and I have a CPL and I also have my firearm on me , just so you are aware". "O.K." he says, I then give him my CPL and DL and then I say to him "That was pretty rude of that officer to do that to me". He says "What happened back there?" I tell him how I was confronted by the Officer and how he harrased me about my gun. I then look in my side mirror and see the off duty LEO is pulling up behind us and stopping in the street. I then say "That's him right there, Is he harassing me?" The LEO then says "No Sir, He is not harassing you." So I then say, "O.K.  can you then please explain to him that OC'ing is legal and that I have not commited a crime. The LEO says, "Yes sir, I can do that for you." The LEO then explains to the off duty LEO that I am legal and I have not commited a crime. The off duty LEO then speeds off in his mini van never to be seen again, LOL.  The LEO then runs my DL and CPL. Afterwards he comes back to my vehichle and says " I dont need your registration or proof of insurance sir." He then said to me "Sir, It is your Constitutional Right to keep and bear arms and that if i went into Scooter D's with a loaded shotgun and sat it on the table and ordered breakfast that there would be nothing that LE could do because it also is Open Carry. He then Stated to me "That The Supreme Court would back me up on it too". He then says "Im sorry about this sir." We then converse for a moment and then we go our seperate ways. I must say that the LEO that pulled me over was very proffesional and polite. I am pleased with this encounter, and pleased to see he supports the Constitution. I must say "Congratulations to Parchment" for a job well done. I must admit, I did not know we can Open Carry Shotguns/Rifles because when I see information concerning Open Carry it always concerns a pistol. I will have to check this information to verify it is correct before I go down to Scooter D's.

That's where I live! :) What gas station was it?
Overall, I think that the 2nd encounter went as well as could be expected once you saw how the off-duty responded.
Off-topic, but I think Parchment's police cars are just weird looking.