Author Topic: Open carry for poll watchers  (Read 36268 times)

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Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Open carry for poll watchers
« on: October 07, 2020, 07:45:40 AM »
Can Poll Watchers open carry?
I'd assume so, barring any law saying they can't, but Joceyln Benson is aghast at the very thought of it.

https://www.fox17online.com/news/election-2020/open-carry-of-guns-is-an-open-question-at-michigan-polls-on-election-day

Is this forum officially dead?
I'd assume so, but thought I'd post this up and see if anybody's here.

BTW, does everybody know about the lawsuit against FaceBook for trying to illegally influence the elections?
https://www.ammoland.com/2020/10/fec-complaint-filed-against-facebook-for-federal-election-campaign-violations/
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2020, 10:02:54 AM »
When I first read this post I read it as poll-workers.

I would think open carrying by poll watchers would be legal because they aren't employed by the state or locality.  I'm sure some would say it's illegal because they are intimidating voters, though. 

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2020, 08:58:19 PM »
And now Benson, with hearty applause from Nessel and Whitmer, is saying that nobody can OC within 100' of the polls.

Apparently violating the law concerning firearms does not deter Benson any more than Whitmer and Nessel care about violating the law concerning emergency management orders.

Beau LaFave and others have spoken out against Benson's self-enacted legislation. Are the House and Senate taking steps to stop this?
What impeachment powers does the state legislature have? It would seem the '3 witches of Lansing' have done more to merit it than Trump could ever hope to do.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elanagross/2020/10/16/michigan-bans-open-carry-of-guns-at-polling-sites-on-election-day-sparking-anger-from-second-amendment-advocates/#34b4fb3a19b9

Do I need to kick another hundred into the MOC legal fund over this?
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline Pond Scum

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2020, 09:10:14 PM »
And now Benson, with hearty applause from Nessel and Whitmer, is saying that nobody can OC within 100' of the polls.
 .......

Do I need to kick another hundred into the MOC legal fund over this?

Good idea.  I think I'll kick something in as well!   :D

Here is a copy of my post over at MGO.   It sums up pretty much how I feel about the SOS instructions.



"I'm not a lawyer but I'm very interested in this as well. The clear language from the statute is:

"REVISED JUDICATURE ACT OF 1961 (EXCERPT)
Act 236 of 1961

600.1825 Arrest; privileged persons.
Sec. 1825.

(1) Every elector is privileged from arrest while going to, attending, and returning from elections in all cases except for treason, felony, or breach of the peace."

Here is an except from the SOS instructions to poll workers:

"October 16, 2020
Open Carry of Firearms at Polling Places on Election Day Prohibited
In Michigan, an individual’s ability to carry a firearm depends on several factors, such as whether he or she is licensed to carry a concealed weapon or is exempt from licensure; the location; whether the weapon is concealed or openly carried; and other circumstances.
The presence of firearms at the polling place, clerk’s office(s), or absent voter counting board may cause disruption, fear, or intimidation for voters, election workers, and others present. Absent clear standards, there is potential for confusion and uneven application of legal requirements for Michigan’s 1,600 election officials, 30,000 election inspectors, 8 million registered voters, and thousands of challengers and poll watchers on Election Day."


It seems the SOS is trying to skirt the law by unilaterally declaring that open carry "may cause disruption, fear, or intimidation" and implying that it constitutes a "breach of the peace." Even though I don't know of any problems or issues with thousands of 2A supporters OC'ing while voting for many years.

I believe in OC, I OC all the time on my bikes, and occasionally going about my normal activities but voting I have always CC'd. This year that is going to change and I'm going to OC to vote on November 3rd. We vote in a small rural community center and while I don't know the election officials we recognize them and I believe they remember us from election to election. It will be interesting to see what happens when I come in sporting a 1911 on my hip. The SOS is telling the inspectors to call the police.

My thanks to MGO, MOC and our 2A attorneys that are on top of this situation and are pushing for a ruling or injunction before aggressive law enforcement officers start arresting us at the polls."

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2020, 12:14:21 AM »
Pond Scum, wear/carry an audio recorder when you vote.

There is a lawsuit over this.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2020, 08:50:05 AM »
Pond Scum, wear/carry an audio recorder when you vote.

There is a lawsuit over this.

I'm thinking audio on a necklace, iPhone video in a shirt pocket, or maybe something more inconspicuous.
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B089MCDRFY/

Because police would never seize your phone and delete video of themselves committing crimes...
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline MI_XD

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2020, 11:51:49 AM »
I too will be open carrying, as I have for YEARS when voting...
Of course will have recorder going, and copies of the pertinent MCL excerpts.
I plan to call the Township Supervisor to see if there will be any problems with me voting how I have for years.....
MI_XD
SW Michigan
I finally can be Proud of America, again!

Offline MI_XD

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2020, 11:53:30 AM »
Oh, and glad to see posts here.... not ALL of us have Facistpalm......
MI_XD
SW Michigan
I finally can be Proud of America, again!

Offline Pond Scum

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2020, 09:53:25 PM »
gryphon, good thoughts on the audio recording!  I'll do that! 

I'm thinking audio on a necklace, iPhone video in a shirt pocket, or maybe something more inconspicuous.
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B089MCDRFY/

I don't know of any laws against audio recording but I do believe that pictures and videos in the polling location are banned.  If the police confront me outside maybe I can get Sue to video it for me.  Unfortunately Sue is dead set against me OC'ing to vote so I could be dead before the election and then I'll vote for Biden!   :yikes:  Or I might just be in trouble .... but I've been married 26 years so I'm used to being in trouble!   ;D

Offline PDinDetroit

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2020, 02:01:10 AM »
As to the "intimidation claims" from the MI SOS...

Quote from: MSP Legal Update #86
Brandishing firearms MCL   750.234e   provides   that   it   is   a   90-day   misdemeanor for a person to knowingly brandish a firearm in public.  Brandishing is not defined in Michigan    law    and    there    are    no    reported    Michigan  cases  that  define  the  term.    Attorney General  Opinion  No.  7101  provides  guidance  and states, “A person when carrying a handgun in  a  holster  in  plain  view  is  not  waving  or  displaying  the  firearm  in  a  threatening  manner.    Thus,    such    conduct    does    not    constitute    brandishing a firearm

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

The MI AG Opinion that closes down this shenanigans: https://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10176.htm

As for trespass, MCL 600.1825 covers that misdemeanor.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2020, 10:29:33 AM »
Detroit Spews weighs in on the lawsuits. "Serial litigant Robert Davis" - no bias here, nosiree.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/23/open-carry-ban-gun-groups-lawsuit-sos-benson/5997584002/

Tuesday deadline on written briefs, what are the odds of a timely decision which isn't going to be appealed/stayed on the 2nd?

"The feedback I’ve been getting from our police agencies is that they’re uncomfortable trying to enforce something they clearly don’t have the authority to enforce," said Robert Stevenson, director of the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police. “Our hope is that this will get resolved and there’ll be some clear guidance.

Attorney General Dana Nessel said Michigan State Police troopers would intercede in locations where local police refused to enforce the ban.

When was Nessel appointed Comandante of State Police?
I thought Col Joe Gasper was the one to decide whether to deploy Troopers on a mission like this.

About video: is the ban on video in the building, or video at the voting booth?
Is there an exemption for preservation of evidence of unlawful acts?
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline Pond Scum

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2020, 11:59:31 AM »

About video: is the ban on video in the building, or video at the voting booth?
Is there an exemption for preservation of evidence of unlawful acts?

I had read about it a week ago.  Here is a quick google:

You can take picture of your ballot.  Read the bottom about other restrictions:  https://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127--496902--,00.html

Page 39:  https://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/XI_Election_Day_Issues_266009_7.pdf

Offline PDinDetroit

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2020, 12:35:15 PM »

Offline MI_XD

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2020, 05:02:00 PM »
Just saw that WE WON!!!!!

CARRY ON!   (at  the Polls!)
MI_XD
SW Michigan
I finally can be Proud of America, again!

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2020, 05:57:21 PM »
Even the Detroit News called Benson a would-be monarch.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/editorials/2020/10/16/michigan-secretary-state-benson-cant-rewrite-gun-laws/3683668001/
https://www.dailypress.net/opinion/editorial/2020/10/michigan-secretary-of-state-benson-cant-write-state-gun-laws/

So the AG's office believes if we can open carry at the polls we'll kidnap Gretchen there?
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Judge-hears-challenge-to-Election-Day-ban-on-15679022.php

ED WHITE, Associated Press
Updated: Oct. 27, 2020 2:38 p.m.

DETROIT (AP) — A judge on Tuesday blocked a sudden ban on the open display of guns near Michigan polling places on Election Day.

Judge Christopher Murray acted just a few hours after hearing a challenge from gun-rights groups. They said Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, a Democrat, had exceeded her authority this month in banning people from openly carrying guns within 100 feet (30.48 meters) of polling places.

Critics argued that Benson failed to go through a formal rule-making process as required under state law. Murray agreed.

Compliance “is no mere procedural nicety,” the judge said. “Instead, our appellate courts have repeatedly emphasized the importance of the democratic principles embodied in the (law), which requires notice and an opportunity to be heard on the subject under consideration.”

Earlier in the day, Assistant Attorney General Heather Meingast said lawmakers have given secretaries of state discretion to set certain election rules. She said Benson acted after authorities recently busted up an alleged plot to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

You expect the three queens to give up? Never:
Attorney General Dana Nessel, a Democrat, pledged to appeal Murray's decision with just days left until the election.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline Pond Scum

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2020, 06:19:38 PM »
WooHoo! Thanks to all the folks that helped get this ruling!  Lots of smart people on our side!   :)

Still the dance continues as the "Three Queens" say they will file an appeal and spend more taxpayer dollars.  I contend that Benson's directive is a felony for trying to intimidate me when going to vote and is also inciting others to commit violence against me at the polling location. 

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2020, 08:17:34 PM »
I contend that Benson's directive is a felony for trying to intimidate me when going to vote and is also inciting others to commit violence against me at the polling location.

Queen Dana l was quoted as saying she would order state troopers to commit violence against you if you exercise your rights.
That sounds like a step or two above inciting.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 11:31:00 AM by CitizensHaveRights »
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline MI_XD

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2020, 10:29:56 AM »
WooHoo! Thanks to all the folks that helped get this ruling!  Lots of smart people on our side!   :)

Still the dance continues as the "Three Queens" say they will file an appeal and spend more taxpayer dollars.  I contend that Benson's directive is a felony for trying to intimidate me when going to vote and is also inciting others to commit violence against me at the polling location.

I totally agree with that sentiment!
And THANKS to those working on this case!
MI_XD
SW Michigan
I finally can be Proud of America, again!

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2020, 02:25:18 PM »
We win in the Court of Appeals, but the Red Queens will never give up...and Robert Davis is still a "Serial Litigant" (if he were genuinely a vexatious litigant, he'd sue the propagandists every time they called him that).

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/29/appeals-court-upholds-halt-bensons-open-carry-ban-michigan-polls/6067966002/

The Michigan Court of Appeals has denied Attorney General Dana Nessel's appeal of a lower court decision that halted Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson's open carry ban at polling places, but Nessel immediately appealed to the Michigan Supreme Court.

While the briefs filed in the case raise "legitimate concerns," the Michigan Legislature already has given the state "important and necessary tools to prevent voter intimidation," according to the unanimous decision by a three-judge panel.


There already is a law that bans voter intimidation and another that prohibits the brandishing of a firearm in public, the judges noted.


The Michigan State Police opted not to join Nessel's appeal to the Court of Appeals and  Michigan Supreme Court and instead will comply with state Court of Claims Judge Christopher Murray's original preliminary injunction.


I guess that answers my question as to when Nessel became the Commandante of the State Police.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2020, 08:53:26 PM »

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2020, 10:11:42 PM »
What's the deal with masks at the polls?
Can you be refused entry or refused a ballot if you don't wrap a rag around your face?

I suppose I could buy some white panties, write STRETCHIN GRETCHEN on them with a black sharpie and hook the leg holes over my ears if somebody insists on a mask...
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2020, 06:57:13 PM »
I saw a QUARANTINE WHITMER bumper sticker today.  I told the guy I liked it.

Offline Pond Scum

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2020, 11:01:39 PM »
I saw a QUARANTINE WHITMER bumper sticker today.  I told the guy I liked it.

I think that would be a good idea.  It would help solve a lot of problems that we are having in the state right now.

Had to sign in at breakfast this morning.... not my idea of a reasonable request.  Sigh.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2020, 05:35:59 AM »
I think that would be a good idea.  It would help solve a lot of problems that we are having in the state right now.

Had to sign in at breakfast this morning.... not my idea of a reasonable request.  Sigh.

Name: Stretch G Whitmer
Number 517-373-3400

Did Queen Dana make any progress with the Supreme Court?
And do the poll workers have any authority to force masks?
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2020, 05:45:06 AM »
https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/02/no-word-michigan-court-open-carry-ban-election-day/6121466002/

In a press release late Monday, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel and Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson lamented the fact the Michigan Supreme Court had yet to release a decision in the case. Nessel and Benson recently asked the court to take up their case after lower courts sided with gunowners and a Wayne County activist who sued the state.

"Though I am disappointed that the Supreme Court hasn’t provided guidance in advance of Election Day, it does not change the fact that voter intimidation is still illegal in Michigan, which is why I am doing everything possible to intimidate gun owners, because I specialize in the illegal” Nessel said.

“Those (except for Jocelyn and I) who attempt to deter or interfere with someone trying to exercise the fundamental right to vote will be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.”
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2020, 07:15:22 AM »
What's the deal with masks at the polls?
Can you be refused entry or refused a ballot if you don't wrap a rag around your face?

All the MSM was saying masks not required in August.
This month, they're mostly silent on the subject, but I did find this in the Manchester Mirror, and the AG did say she will not tolerate any form of voter suppression:

http://themanchestermirror.com/2020/10/26/michigan-voting-2020-masks-guns-id-straight-ticket-what-you-should-know/

Are voters required to wear masks in polling places?

No, though they are encouraged to do so. Wearing masks are proven to help reduce the spread of coronavirus.

Election workers are required to wear masks inside polling places under an order from the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services. Masks also are required for poll challengers who are appointed by parties and other organizations to watchdog the electoral process and poll watchers who choose to come observe polling places.

Each precinct will be given masks, gloves and face shields for poll workers and be required to regularly disinfect high-touch surfaces.


How many people can be inside a polling place at one time?

The Bureau of Elections recommends limiting the number of people inside polling places so that voters and election workers can maintain 6 feet of distance at all times.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2020, 11:18:38 AM »
We had a guy outside handing out pens and ballot applications.
The I Voted sticker was on the pen, and mine wouldn't come off in one piece so the Sig didn't get a sticker.
The guy handing out the applications started to ask me to zip my jacket because I was exposing, but a brief conversation indicated he thought concealed or open carry was OK, so it didn't matter. Then when it got warm enough I stuck my jacket in the car.

There was  a sign on the door politely requesting masks, so I voluntarily honored the request.
I would have dealt differently with a demand.

Things were running very slow in my township, four voting booths meant they were averaging about 30 voters per hour. There were fewer than 120 ballots handed out by 10:45. There was apparently a line outdoors the entire time the polls were open, so voting was proceeding at maximum speed.

They said the mail in votes were about double the number of a normal year.

One interesting data point:
The couple in front of me looked to be in their 60s, and said it was the first time they ever voted.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2020, 06:58:15 PM »
In a press release late Monday, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel and Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson lamented the fact the Michigan Supreme Court had yet to release a decision in the case.
MISC refused to hear the case, and they are stacked with liberals.

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2020, 07:04:15 PM »
The couple in front of me looked to be in their 60s, and said it was the first time they ever voted.
Isn't that amazing?

As far as poll workers, they cannot demand anyone wear a mask, and they will let you vote either way.  My wife worked two elections this year as a poll worker.

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2020, 07:15:54 PM »
Also, all day long WJIM radio was quoting the Lansing police stating that open carry in any school or church is illegal any time, including today when they are polling places. I was screaming at my radio every time I heard that.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2020, 08:14:16 AM »
I'm really happy that the Rs kept the Senate. And unhappy (but absolutely not surprised) that Tlaib and Dingell kept their House seats.

But the part that really upsets and frightens me is that MI and PA counted votes until it was known how many Biden ballots needed to be produced to change the results, and if they do pack the ballot boxes overnight, James will lose his Senate seat.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2020, 09:05:17 AM »
Can somebody explain the changes in the numbers in these two images?
The only explanations I can come up with are Photoshop and Fraud.

"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2020, 07:54:07 PM »
Easy--Biden got over 138,000 votes in one ballot dump while Trump got zero.  Sounds legit.    :-\

Biden won MI by 130,000 votes.

A similar thing happened in one PA county.  Biden +38,000 votes, Trump +0 votes.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 11:45:20 PM by gryphon »

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2020, 07:59:21 PM »
if they do pack the ballot boxes overnight, James will lose his Senate seat.
James was up by over 10% all night long, now all of a sudden he's down by 1%?  This should have been a net gain of +1 for the Republicans, now we'll probably be 53-47 like before, or worse.

Edit: worse.   :(
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 11:45:49 PM by gryphon »

Offline MI_XD

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2020, 03:31:15 PM »
Tom,
I don't do Facistbook, so here is mine!
MI_XD
SW Michigan
I finally can be Proud of America, again!

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2020, 03:32:02 PM »
James was up by over 10% all night long, now all of a sudden he's down by 1%?  This should have been a net gain of +1 for the Republicans, now we'll probably be 53-47 like before, or worse.

Edit: worse.   :(

Check this out, a Detroit poll supervisor training poll workers in the official Benson Method of illegally stifling poll watchers, and then, when November rolls around, what happened? Exactly what was said in the video, poll watchers not allowed to watch the count. (I hear that in PA, they've halted the count while the Dems fight against a court order forcing poll watching)
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Video-on-Michigan-Training-Poll-Workers-On-How-to-Cheat/5-2382136/

This isn't proof (heck, give me a voice scrambler and I can make that recording, and I've never been a postal employee), but it needs to be thoroughly investigated:


"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline MI_XD

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2020, 03:34:02 PM »
Tom,
I don't do Facistbook, so here is mine.

Only comment I got was from a guy saying he was surprised that Gretchy gave us so easily and didn't keep stamping her feet... 

MI_XD
SW Michigan
I finally can be Proud of America, again!

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2020, 04:19:49 PM »
Well, even hand stamping votes with the previous date shouldn't change anything because they were not RECEIVED by 8:00 PM on Nov. 3 by the county clerk.

Note the operative word "shouldn't."

Offline Pond Scum

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2020, 07:23:42 PM »
I posted this on Facebook under my Facebook alias but I figured that I better post here as well:

No problems.  No questions.  Only comment was from the guy in line in front of us,  "I like your grips!"  And he wasn't even a Michigan State Fan!   ;D


Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2020, 07:21:07 AM »
Well, even hand stamping votes with the previous date shouldn't change anything because they were not RECEIVED by 8:00 PM on Nov. 3 by the county clerk.

Note the operative word "shouldn't."

Some courts have ruled that the law needs to be ignored, because All Votes Must Be Counted, even those that arrive 2 weeks after the election.

So, what elements is Dean looking for in an 'I Open Carry at the Polls' affidavit?
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2020, 01:41:21 PM »
Probably a narrative of your experience.  I don't know if the form has been uploaded to the MOC server or not.

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2020, 03:22:32 AM »
Had to sign in at breakfast this morning.... not my idea of a reasonable request.  Sigh.
I don't think anyone here knows, but I had COVID-19 last month.  My wife caught it at a garage sale in late September and gave it to me. Yes, she wore a mask as did almost all of the other people she encountered.  She came down with symptoms on Sep 28 (2-3 days after being exposed), and I had symptoms beginning Sep 29.  The MI Dept. of Health will try to track your movements and interactions once they get the report that you are COVID-positive, but they will not work very hard at it.  They'll call you and leave a message.  If you don't call back, you'll never hear another thing from them.  This signing in helps.  They do their job, but they are lazy and will not try too hard to really do a good job, hence these new rules for restaurants, barber shops, etc.  I didn't see any sign-in requirement for BLM, police, or Trump protests, though.  Weird.  Whitmer must have overlooked that.

Believe me, you do NOT want to get COVID!!!  It sucks.  It sucks big time.

At least it can.

Offline Pond Scum

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2020, 05:14:04 AM »
Sorry to hear you had a rough time with it gryphon.  We don't have too many cases out here in Whitehall but Muskegon is a hot spot.  The health care folks I know are all worried about the coming flu/virus season. 

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2020, 05:00:36 PM »
There's no such thing as flu this year.
I'm absolutely not bothering with the flu shot.

Pick one:
All the flu cases are being tabulated as COVID cases.
The COVID prevention measures have prevented the spread of flu better than they prevent the spread of COVID.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2020, 05:56:56 AM »
You need an a) and b) choice.  Fail.

LOL!

Btw, I choose B.

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2020, 01:18:31 PM »
There's no such thing as flu this year.

My wife told me yesterday that she's still going to get a flu shot this year.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2020, 06:10:56 PM »
My wife told me yesterday that she's still going to get a flu shot this year.

My mom, a total hermit except for going to the drive through at the bank and getting curbside pickup on drugs and groceries, went inside the drug store to get a flu shot. I think for some, the flu shot decision was made the year they started getting them, and now it's something they do every year automatically, like putting the snow tires on the car and setting the clocks back an hour.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline Pond Scum

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Re: Open carry for poll watchers
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2020, 02:03:53 PM »
We have been getting flu shots every year about 10 years or so.  We started going on cruises in October and decided that getting the shots about 4 - 6 weeks before the cruise was a smart decision.   One thing that I learned from Disney cruises is frequent hand washing and using the sanitizing wipes.  Every time you go into a dining room on Disney they hand you a wipe.  I always carried one thru the buffet lines to grab the spoons & forks.  Disney frequently replaces the serving utensils but still there are 50 other people using them between replacements .... including all the little booger pickers. 

We never got the flu or crud on a cruise but Sue got pneumonia on our first trans Atlantic adventure.  I have to say that a Disney cruise ship was better that getting it at home.  No hospital stay.  I would push her wheel chair to the elevator, push the 1st floor button and wheel out into the med center. NO waiting ... the first day took 5 minutes to fill out the form and right to the exam room.  After that the nurse has everything set up when we arrived and she was waiting for us. Sue got IV antibiotics and nebulizer treatments twice a day. Total bill was about $1400 and insurance paid it all..... 2 nights in the hospital would have been thousands.    OH, and the room service food was Excellent!  (I didn't do the room service .... I went to the dining room with my Dad after feeding the sickie.)

BACK on topic, Sue says she is not getting the Covid vaccine.  I am leaning toward getting it ... probably 90% for sure unless I get the crud before it is my turn for the vaccine. 

EDIT: Just noticed that the OPEN Carry for poll watchers morphed into a Covid thread.