Author Topic: New Member from Kent County  (Read 6833 times)

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Offline hooch

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New Member from Kent County
« on: August 21, 2010, 05:14:07 PM »
I was following the Royal Oak situation on the migunowners site and noticed several referrals to this site. I don't open carry but feel local governments shouldn't enact laws or ordinances to restrict rights of citizens. I have started to check local government laws and everyone I checked has their own restriction on firearms possession. I have started to email them to get them to comply with http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-123-1102. Any tips or suggestions are appreciated.

So far I have attempted to contact:
Kent County Parks
Plainfield TWP Parks
City of Rockford.

Offline FatboyCykes

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Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2010, 09:50:31 PM »
Thanks for your efforts!  Keep up the fight, most seem to know, or are willing to admit that these ordinances are unenforceable, but are unwilling to preemptively(:D) do the right thing w/o a little push.

So, again, I thank you and ask you to keep it up!

Offline drtodd

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Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2010, 09:59:29 PM »
I was following the Royal Oak situation on the migunowners site and noticed several referrals to this site. I don't open carry but feel local governments shouldn't enact laws or ordinances to restrict rights of citizens. I have started to check local government laws and everyone I checked has their own restriction on firearms possession. I have started to email them to get them to comply with http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-123-1102. Any tips or suggestions are appreciated.

So far I have attempted to contact:
Kent County Parks
Plainfield TWP Parks
City of Rockford.

Of the three entities you listed, the city of Rockford is the only one that appears to be violating the law. The others just reference state law, which they are allowed to do. Have you contacted the City of Rockford?
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

Offline hooch

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Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2010, 10:37:59 PM »
I have contacted Michael Young, Rockford City Manager via link on their web page. They don't actually list contact information for him or any other members of the Rockford City Council. I have yet to receive a reply.

 http://www.rockford.mi.us/contactForm/contact.html

Offline drtodd

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Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2010, 12:24:29 AM »
I have contacted Michael Young, Rockford City Manager via link on their web page. They don't actually list contact information for him or any other members of the Rockford City Council. I have yet to receive a reply.

 http://www.rockford.mi.us/contactForm/contact.html

I started an attempt on my end... perhaps the council thinking that more than just 1 person is interested in this and that there may eventually be 100 OCers showing up to a city council meeting may speed things up.
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

Offline Kylereu

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Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 12:02:10 PM »
I have done the same in contacting Rockford city hall on this issue. Maybe we can get the point that the law is the law to them.
I would rather be judged 12 by then carried by 6. God said tho shalt not kill (murder) God also said if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36 (Sure that if there were guns back then he would have traded sword for gun ;) )

Offline Kylereu

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Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 03:30:34 PM »
Just wanted to show you the email response I got from the city manager.

Yes I am very familiar MOC Inc. I am an avid hunter and own quite a collection of hand guns. Your statement that Rockford is not complying with Michigan laws is uneducated and false. We have had several instances the last few years where individuals have openly carried in compliance with the law. Have you received any complaints about our enforcement of the open carry laws? I'm guessing not. If you want to have a mature discussion about any of our ordinances that may be outdated, please contact Chief Dave Jones (866-9557). If you simply want to show up at a Council meeting with an open handgun on your side to make a point, that is your right too. I would hope you know that local ordinances can not supersede State Laws so again, if we need to clean up some ordinance language, that can be accomplished very easily.

Michael F. Young
city manager
I would rather be judged 12 by then carried by 6. God said tho shalt not kill (murder) God also said if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36 (Sure that if there were guns back then he would have traded sword for gun ;) )

Offline hooch

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Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 08:44:45 PM »
I pointed out the ordinance when I attempted to contact him 08/21/10. Never got anything back.

Chapter 3 Section 3.1 Subsection D line 15 http://www.rockford.mi.us/pages/images/COMPLETECODE_OF_ORDINANCESRevised033010.pdf.

Offline lil_freak_66

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Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 10:45:46 AM »
That city manager seems like a d*** judging by his email response to you.

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of  Michigan Open Carry Inc, any other organization, group, person or the law of this or any other municipality,state or country unless otherwise stated.

Offline venator

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Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 12:21:24 PM »
That city manager seems like a d*** judging by his email response to you.



I concur.  No need for that tone. 
Family book on OPEN CARRY go to: http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
Looking forward to having more smites than posts.  Thanks all.
The above are my opinions only.  Please seek an attorney concerning all questions of law.

Offline emt805

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Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 01:11:54 PM »
Your statement that Rockford is not complying with Michigan laws is uneducated and false.  if we need to clean up some ordinance language, that can be accomplished very easily.

Michael F. Young
city manager

Uneduacated and false when it is on paper in writting for all to see?
"Chapter 3 Section 3.1 Subsection D line 15 "

If it is that easy to "clean up some ordinance language" ? Why is it not done yet?

Offline drtodd

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Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2010, 01:28:30 AM »
Just wanted to show you the email response I got from the city manager.

Yes I am very familiar MOC Inc. I am an avid hunter and own quite a collection of hand guns. Your statement that Rockford is not complying with Michigan laws is uneducated and false. We have had several instances the last few years where individuals have openly carried in compliance with the law. Have you received any complaints about our enforcement of the open carry laws? I'm guessing not. If you want to have a mature discussion about any of our ordinances that may be outdated, please contact Chief Dave Jones (866-9557). If you simply want to show up at a Council meeting with an open handgun on your side to make a point, that is your right too. I would hope you know that local ordinances can not supersede State Laws so again, if we need to clean up some ordinance language, that can be accomplished very easily.

Michael F. Young
city manager

Wow... this is the oddest response I've ever seen.  I think this person has some issues that go beyond anything that was asked; I think we get some clues as to what his "issues" are later in his response.
To state that the law in Rockford IS in compliance with state law, even though the plain wording of the ordinance seems to contradict his statement deserves at least an explanation.  Anything would be a better response by the city than "Yes they are".  Furthermore, calling anyone who disagrees "uneducated" seems to be turning the asking of a question into an invitation to a duel.

He then amazingly, seems to insinuate that the communication he received about this was "immature".  My "contact" regarding this was a quick question of a judge who's bench covers the Rockford area.  I asked my aquaitence if contact had been made yet and he apologized that he had tried only 2 times since my request to communicate with the city... and never had spoken with whom he intended.

Here's what I think happened: Mr Young got a letter/email/ telephone call asking him about Rockfords Ordinances... ordinances which appear to violate state law.  Mr Young decided to do a little research about MI Open Carry and  performed a web search.  He started reading about the events in Royal Oak and, combined with my sarcastic statement about a large number of OCers paying Rockford a visit, he got nervous.  He really doesn't want a bunch of OCers showing up and making "bad-press" for the city.  

There are two ways people generally deal with fear: "flight", or as Mr Young apparently chose, "fight".  But he is not just going to say that Rockford can do what it wants, and that we OCers are so uneducated that we most likely don't even know how to read, let alone read "LAW"... Goodness, people spend 3 years studying law, how can these immature, uneducated, bumpkins even pretend to understand the wording.  So, he throws the insults, says that the ordinances are in line with state lae, and that it is we OCers who are wrong.

While reading his response, my first thought was that there truly are some jobs where social and communication skills take a back seat to just spouting-off anything that comes to mind.  
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 01:31:16 AM by drtodd »
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

Offline hooch

  • Posts: 11
Re: New Member from Kent County
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2010, 09:16:20 AM »
Stickers to fix Plainfield Township park signs illegally banning firearms

PLAINFIELD TOWNSHIP -- The Parks and Recreation Department plans to cover up parts of park signs that state that firearms are not allowed.

Ordinances prohibit firearms, but state law pre-empts those rules. Language was added to the ordinances to acknowledge the state's requirement that firearms be allowed in parks. But the change was not made on the township's website, www.plainfieldchartertwp.org, which caught a resident's eye.

Staff then realized park signs had not been changed. Stickers will be placed on the signs to avoid a $3,000 cost for installing new signs.

http://www.mlive.com/a2z/index.ssf/2010/09/stickers_to_fix_plainfield_township_park_signs_illegally_banning_firearms.html