Question

[BailEnforcer]

I was asked an interesting question tonight by a Security Guard regarding OC and I wasn’t quite sure how to respond so I figured I’d see what you guys have to say.  He works the graveyard shift at a Detroit drugstore as an armed guard and OC’s while working; but, does not currently hold a CCW.

I know that a CCW is not required on Private Property to OC including property you are hired to protect. 

And you need a CCW to possess a firearm while in a vehicle.

Now here’s the dilemma…

If a Security Guard is assigned to patrol a Private Property and they OC while working do they require a CCW to possess a firearm in a vehicle while working on that site?

[autosurgeon]

My feeling is yes BC they do not own the property they are in the vehicle on.

[FatboyCykes]

There is no exemption in the law at all regarding carrying in a vehicle, it is considered CC and needs a license.

[JoeCar]

Here's a another question...can you open carry in your vehicle on private property with the owner's ok, without the cpl?

[autosurgeon]

Here's a another question...can you open carry in your vehicle on private property with the owner's ok, without the cpl?

NO only on your own property that you control... deeded or leased.

[FatboyCykes]

Here's a another question...can you open carry in your vehicle on private property with the owner's ok, without the cpl?

NO only on your own property that you control... deeded or leased.

+1

[jeffsayers]

Cetainly you cannot OC in a vehicle because by our state law possession inside a vehicle (or on top of) is considered concealing.

However, you can conceal on private property with property owner's permission, yes? Therefore, a person contracted to provide security could conceal a firearm in their vehicle while that vehicle is on the private property in question, no? (Just don't run out to MCD's for a breakfast sandwich without legally storing it!)

I think this was the intent of the OP's question albeit this must be a pretty large drugstore to have that much property that vehicle patrols are required?!?!

[ocdetroit]

  +1

[Bronson]

However, you can conceal on private property with property owner's permission, yes?

I disagree.  I'm out of town right now and don't have access to my bookmarks but if I remember correctly the law that prohibits concealed carry also gives exemptions to anybody who is on their OWN property.  It does not exempt other people to carry concealed on the property of others.

Bronson

[autosurgeon]

Not in a car... on foot yes but not in a car.

[Bronson]

Not in a car... on foot yes but not in a car.

I don't believe you can CC on foot on another's property, sans CPL, even with the property owner's permission.

I'm doing this from memory but I believe the law only exempts the owner/resident of the property.

Bronson

[autosurgeon]

An employee can with permission of the employer. Since that is what the OP is talking about.... You may be right for other than an employee.

[Bronson]

An employee can with permission of the employer. Since that is what the OP is talking about.... You may be right for other than an employee.

The original question was:

If a Security Guard is assigned to patrol a Private Property and they OC while working do they require a CCW to possess a firearm in a vehicle while working on that site?

And I say YES.  An employer cannot give their employee permission to CC or vehicle carry anywhere if that employee does not have a CPL.  I'm sure that's why the armed security guards I know are required to have their CPLs.

750.227

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

750.231a

Provides exceptions to the above law and nowhere in the list is "a person employed as a security guard."

(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.

(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

(2) As used in this section:

(a) "Antique firearm" means either of the following:

(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.

(ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

(b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:

(i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.

(ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.

(iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.

(iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.

(v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.

(vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

(vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

28.425o

(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:...

(4) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:....

(b) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is employed or contracted by an entity described under subsection (1) to provide security services and is required by his or her employer or the terms of a contract to carry a concealed firearm on the premises of the employing or contracting entity.

The employer can give the guard permission to OC if it is a firearm free zone e.g. they sell alcohol, but I do not believe they can give permission to CC or vehicle carry to person without a CPL.  But a CPL holder who is employed as a security guard may CC in an otherwise CC pistol free zone if he is employed to guard it.

I am not a lawyer and these are my opinions and should not be taken as legal advice.

Bronson

[Bronson]

Not in a car... on foot yes but not in a car.

Hahahaha!  We totally agree    When you said "on foot" I thought you meant he could CC on foot but not in a car...my bad.

Bronson

[jeffsayers]

It appears my longstanding "knowledge" that a property owner may grant authority to another to conceal a pistol on their property is not correct. I have searched and searched but cannot find the basis for my misunderstanding. My apologies for confusing the hell out of this! 

[venator]

There is no exemption in the law at all regarding carrying in a vehicle, it is considered CC and needs a license.

Well in your vehicle on your property is one exemption.