open carry in the roseville public schools (need a little help )

[keyman]

has anyone been open carrying in the public schools I may have to make a trip to the high school tommorow
and have a conversation with the in house police officer and principle ,due to some threats made toward  son from another student .could anyone give me some low down on the ins and outs of the schools and open carry ?
this was one of my questions for the meeting at gander mountain but I had to work and I missed the meeting .
any help would be appreciated

[dknight16]

Open carrying in a school to discuss a conflict with your son seems overly provocative.  You will be the focus rather than your sons situation.  Sometimes you shouldn't insist on doing something just because you (think) you can.  Why make it about you when it should be about him?

[keyman]

My question was not for an opinion if I should oc or not ,it sounds like your more against open
carry than for it .

[kryptonian]

Open carrying in a school to discuss a conflict with your son seems overly provocative.  You will be the focus rather than your sons situation.  Sometimes you shouldn't insist on doing something just because you (think) you can.  Why make it about you when it should be about him?

have to agree with dknight. everything to lose and nothing to gain. the message the school would get regardless of what was said would be 'mess with my kid i got a gun'. the school will see it as a threat against your son's bully. preemption or not i'm sure the school has a no weapons sign. you WILL get asked to leave with it and even the shortest debate about it will get the police called. word would get back to your son too..QUICK. whatever your agenda there it would be lost in your OC arrival.
legally you can with a CPL but i don't have the exact MCL. someone will pop up on here with it i'm sure. get all your legal info ready for the school and the police. all this entitles me to an 'i told you so' when it goes bad. i hope it doesn't and hope they put a stop to the little bastard that is threatening your son. good luck.

[CV67PAT]

Keyman... you probably shouldn't drive your car to the school either. I know that it too os a lawful activity, but you have to think of the message that it might send to the casual observer. if someone were to see you driving, you vehicle might be more of a distraction.

Again, just because it is a lawful activity, we must be cognizant of any image our lawful conduct may project to others.

So leave the car at home and walk to the school. But wait. If you do that they may think you're poor or that maybe you don't have a valid driver's license.

Darn. Now I don't know what you should do.

I know. Just don't act in any lawful manner for fear of what someone might think.

[JoeCar]

Ok, Cv6 we get the picture. Lawful activity is lawful activity. In my opinion, your mission about your son, would change to the school's mission about your open carrying in their/our building. I, myself, would talk about my son first with them, and then "oh by the way, here is the Mi State Police Oct. update on open carry. They'll read it hopefully, but their going to resist the idea, anyways, of our lawful right to open carry with a cpl in their public school. Take your recorder with you, sir.

[emt805]

If it was my son and I oc daily as I do, I would not disarm just because I am going to talk about a conflict between my son and another student. If you are ocing just to prove a point to make them listen to you I agree with the others, but if it is part of your normal routine don't forget your recorder and to have it with you and on while you are there. I made that mistake tuesday while voting of leaving it in the car.



MCL 28.425o provides that a person with a valid CPL shall not carry a concealed pistol in a pistol-free zone. First offense is a state civil infraction. The following is a list of the premises (excluding parking lots) included in
the statute:

School or school property, except a parent or legal guardian who is dropping off or picking up a child and the pistol is kept in the vehicle

Public or private day care center

Sports arena or stadium

A bar or tavern where sale and consumption of liquor by the glass is the primary source of income (does not apply to owner or employee of the business).

Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless authorized by the presiding official

An entertainment facility that has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

A hospital

A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

A casino

Note, the above statute applies to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. If the CPL holder is carrying a visible pistol, the statute does not apply. As noted above, the unlawful premises listed in MCL 750.234d do not apply to persons with a valid CPL. Therefore, a person with a valid CPL may carry a visible pistol in the areas described in MCL 28.425o and MCL 750.234d.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

[ocdetroit]

What ever you do just remember you not just representing your family, but all who are trying to set a good example for all Open Carriers. Let us know how it turns out.  Carry On

[kryptonian]

What ever you do just remember you not just representing your family, but all who are trying to set a good example for all Open Carriers. Let us know how it turns out.  Carry On

same here ocdetroit. if for whatever reason this made the news it would set back all the acceptance and support we have tried to gain and maintain. if it's a slow news day they will play it up.

[CV67PAT]

Nothing to gain???

Just what then is the purpose and mission of MOC?

Picnics???

Just wait until the real patriots have made it safe for you to participate.

[venator]

has anyone been open carrying in the public schools I may have to make a trip to the high school tommorow
and have a conversation with the in house police officer and principle ,due to some threats made toward  son from another student .could anyone give me some low down on the ins and outs of the schools and open carry ?
this was one of my questions for the meeting at gander mountain but I had to work and I missed the meeting .
any help would be appreciated

If you have a CPL you can open carry in all these places listed.  Note there is no school mentioned in 750.234d.  However The gun free school zone act also exempts people that have a CPL and Michigan Law only says you can't conceal carry in a school.  So by law you would be allowed to OC with a CPL. 

Having written all of this that doesn't mean you won't be detained or asked to leave.  The gray area is, does the school have any power to regulate firearm possession, most people feel schools fall under the preemption law.  It also depends on how aggressive your local PD is.  Some small towns may not have a problem, while larger cities may.

We do have people that OC in schools without problems and a few that have been asked to leave. The decision is up to you, but please think about it and know the laws that deal with this action.

Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

[DGerard]

It is lawful for a CPL holder to OC in a school, BUT, I would agree with DKnight16...the focus won't be about your son once you arrive with a sidearm...in any event keep us posted as to the outcome...

[emt805]

It is lawful for a CPL holder to OC in a school, BUT, I would agree with DKnight16...the focus won't be about your son once you arrive with a sidearm...in any event keep us posted as to the outcome...

Why would focus be on his side arm if he is carrying legal, with no mention of it or force used? It would cause focus on the sidearm if they are not aware of the laws and think it's intent it for something else.  But if a parent walked in legal ocing that would be the schools bad for putting the focus on the sidearm and not on the dicussion about the kid. 

[anetsprungen]

A reminder is in order, albeit a little off topic.

Language and Trolling
Our community is family-friendly. There are young users and language should be kept within a PG-13 level. Vulgar language is not allowed. This constitutes the use of any kind of offensive, discriminatory, or otherwise inappropriate material deemed unsafe for younger members. Inappropriate language will potentially be removed and users will be warned.

Do not post provocative, outrageous, or pointless messages only to get a response from others, i.e. "trolling." Repeat violators will be permanently banned.

While the rules do not set a limit on what constitutes "repeat", the general rule of thumb is three times.

A forum member reported that the first post in this thread by CV67PAT is provocative.  After reading all the posts in this thread, I agree.  Therefore, CV67PAT is hereby put on notice that if it happens twice more, he will be banned from the forum.


Roy Sprunger
Forum Administrator

[kryptonian]

A reminder is in order, albeit a little off topic.

Language and Trolling
Our community is family-friendly. There are young users and language should be kept within a PG-13 level. Vulgar language is not allowed. This constitutes the use of any kind of offensive, discriminatory, or otherwise inappropriate material deemed unsafe for younger members. Inappropriate language will potentially be removed and users will be warned.

Do not post provocative, outrageous, or pointless messages only to get a response from others, i.e. "trolling." Repeat violators will be permanently banned.

While the rules do not set a limit on what constitutes "repeat", the general rule of thumb is three times.

A forum member reported that the first post in this thread by CV67PAT is provocative.  After reading all the posts in this thread, I agree.  Therefore, CV67PAT is hereby put on notice that if it happens twice more, he will be banned from the forum.


Roy Sprunger
Forum Administrator

thanks roy - i think his comment was aimed at me and not sure what he was trying to say.

[ocdetroit]

+1 Let's Carry On.

[jeffsayers]

Just my $0.02, but I didn't think as an observer that Pat was trying to be provocative towards anyone; rather he was trying to provoke thought. Granted, he could have said what he said in a lot less words, as he was simply trying to point out that it shouldn't be a concern.

Of course, I and most would applaud someone for asking for thoughts about potential issues that could come up. It never hurts to think about stuff before acting; even if it is a legal activity. And yes, that includes something as simple as driving.

This said, here's my contribution to the thread:
Roseville PD is (in my opinion) amongst the best in the state when it comes to recognizing our firearms rights.

If the prinicpal and/or school officer makes any comment, I would quickly say "I carry my sidearm everywhere allowed by law in accordance with such. Can we go ahead and get started with my son's business now?"

[emt805]

I see it as a point counter point to see both sides rather than lean one way or the other, but why announce the disapline on a public forum rather than in an email to that member?

[CV67PAT]

I see it as a point counter point to see both sides rather than lean one way or the other, but why announce the disapline on a public forum rather than in an email to that member?

Actually I prefer public discipline. The infractions and the retort can be viewed by all to preclude others from conducting themselves inappropiately.

And in some instances it shows the totalitarian approach by the hierarchy in applying a heavy handed approach to what is possibly a mundane opinion.

And it also brings to light the fact that sometimes the participants can be whiners.

So for what it is worth, it is better at times to have these things done in the light of day as opposed to being performed in the star chamber.

And thanks Jeff.

[NHCGRPR45]

something similar happened to me, with a child in school those who have met/know me have heard the story. in hindsight i believe that i should have left the gun in the car. however the situation was resolved with me on the winning side, if winning could be accurately used to describe what happened.

i would support your decision whatever it was, so long as you think out well in advance of what all the potential positive/negative things that could or would happen, not just to yourself but to your child as well. it may make things worse, or better i can't give anymore advice than i already have without knowing all the particulars about your situation.

my only real advice i can offer is this.

be careful, and as always proceed with caution.

[fozzy71]

......
Do not post provocative, outrageous, or pointless messages only to get a response from others,........

Pretty sure this is exactly why forums were created.......

I suppose I can consider this my first offense??

[dknight16]

Any update on how this went for you?