Author Topic: other items to have  (Read 21813 times)

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Offline kryptonian

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other items to have
« on: November 20, 2010, 11:22:08 PM »
was just thinking what else you should have in addition to your sidearm when you go out OC aside from additional magazines and digital voice recorder. here's my thoughts. let me know if you think of any more.

1) zip ties - in the event you should have to restrain someone. if you have to discharge your weapon it would only be during a criminal act. if your assailant isnt incapacitated by your shot(s) you made need to restrain him or his accomplises.
2) first aid kit - if your assailant isnt incapacitated by your shot(s) you may have to offer temporary medical help until help arrives or maybe even for yourself.
3) flares - you may need to brightly mark your location for responding police and ambulance to find you especially at night.
4) usb thumb drive (marked)- have medical info and contact names, emergency info and necessary laws with MCL numbers to show or remind police of the laws (i'm sure their computer on board has a usb port). i have 'girls gone wild' on my drive. probably shouldn't use that one.
5) digital camera - can't hurt to document the scene and any injury marks done to you prior to discharging your weapon. red contact marks and bruising fade away. would be good in court if necessary.

thats all i can think of now but open to more ideas.
i don't fear the barking dog...i'm scared of the quiet dog

Offline emt805

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2010, 12:40:59 AM »
1) zip ties - in the event you should have to restrain someone. if you have to discharge your weapon it would only be during a criminal act. if your assailant isnt incapacitated by your shot(s) you made need to restrain him or his accomplises.

Would that not be considered unlawful detainment/kidnapping? Let alone to some it would be you trying to play cop or security guard?  How would it look that once you shoot someone you restrain them in the eyes of a passer by?

Offline Bronson

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2010, 02:16:14 AM »
And apparently a rucksack or small wheeled cart  :P

Bronson
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2010, 08:58:46 AM »
If they attacked you (committed a Felony) Then you have the right to perform a Citizens Arrest I would think that would include detainment. And as long as you do not attempt to take them anywhere I doubt a kidnapping charge would able to stick. However much of that will depend on you NOT talking to the police until your attorney has spoken with you.
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline kryptonian

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2010, 11:27:35 AM »
thought this would get more support. i was LEO and know all about lawful citizen arrest and kidnapping. i've handcuffed a guy to a trailer once to go chase his buddies down. i did forget to add flashlight to my list too. this was supposed to be helpful. would hate to be in a shooting situation in the first place but if i were then i would like to think i would need that stuff. i called oakland county sheriff's department and was told their units don't have usb port readers but probably still good to have that info. i don't think i would leave the scene to chase down a wounded BG to detain him especially in his neighborhood and never assume they are alone. he'll turn up sooner or later at a hospital if my aim was any good. if they are down wounded then the police have a duty to render first aid. we don't but would look better to authorities.
i don't fear the barking dog...i'm scared of the quiet dog

Offline onnie0047@gmail.com

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2010, 11:52:34 AM »
still looking for more info on michigan citizen arrest, which i thought was not allowed but i guess still is

http://courts.michigan.gov/mcji/intentional-torts/intentional-torts-Ch116.htm#ji11606



M Civ JI 116.06  False Arrest—Defense— Right of Private Citizen to Arrest

An arrest is lawful if it is made by a private citizen in any one of the following circumstances:

for a felony committed in [his / her] presence
when the person to be arrested had committed a felony although not in the presence of the citizen
*(when [he / she] is summoned by a peace officer to assist said officer in making an arrest)
†(The elements of the crime of [Specify felony.] are [State elements of the felony.].)


Note on Use

*Delete subparagraph c if not an issue.

†If defendant relies wholly on subparagraph c, the last paragraph of this instruction should not be given.

If defendant is a private security guard, see MCL 338.1080.

Comment

Subsections a through c of this instruction state substantially, in the language of the statute, three of four circumstances in which a private citizen has a right to arrest. MCL 764.16. See also Bright v Littlefield, ___ Mich ___; 641 NW2d 587 (2002); Freeman v Meijer, Inc, 95 Mich App 475; 291 NW2d 87 (1980); Nash v Sears Roebuck & Co, 12 Mich App 553; 163 NW2d 471 (1968); Maliniemi v Gronlund, 92 Mich 222; 52 NW 627 (1892). For rights of a merchant, agent, or employee of a merchant, or independent contractor providing security for a merchant, to make an arrest, see MCL 764.16(d).

History

M Civ JI 116.06 was added September 1982. TOP


 

M Civ JI 116.07  False Arrest—Arrest with Warrant

An arrest is lawful if defendant made such arrest pursuant to a warrant naming [name of plaintiff], and did not act in bad faith.


Comment

An arrest made pursuant to a warrant which is valid on its face is a lawful arrest. See Gooch v Wachowiak, 352 Mich 347; 89 NW2d 496 (1958); Tryon v Pingree, 112 Mich 338, 345; 70 NW 905, 907 (1897); Barker v Anderson, 81 Mich 508; 45 NW 1108 (1890).

History

M Civ JI 116.07 was added September 1982. TOP


 

M Civ JI 116.20  False Arrest—Burden of Proof

Plaintiff has the burden of proof on each of the following:

that [he / she] was arrested by defendant
that [he / she] was aware of the arrest and it was against [his / her] will
that defendant intended to arrest the plaintiff
that such arrest was unlawful
If you find that plaintiff has proved each of the elements that I have explained to you, and the defendant has failed to prove the defense of [Describe defense.], your verdict will be for the plaintiff.

If you find that the plaintiff has failed to prove any one of the elements, or if you find that the defendant has proved the defense of [Describe defense.], your verdict will be for the defendant.


History

M Civ JI 116.20 was added September 1982. TOP


 

M Civ JI 116.21  False Imprisonment— Burden of Proof

Plaintiff has the burden of proof on each of the following:

that [he / she] was imprisoned; that is, [he / she] was restrained, detained or confined by defendant and thereby deprived of [his / her] personal liberty or freedom of movement
that such imprisonment was against [his / her] will
that defendant accomplished the imprisonment by actual physical force or by an express or implied threat of force
that defendant intended to deprive plaintiff of [his / her] personal liberty or freedom of movement
that such imprisonment was unlawful
If you find that plaintiff has proved each of the elements that I have explained to you, and the defendant has failed to prove the defense of [Describe defense.], your verdict will be for the plaintiff.

If you find that the plaintiff has failed to prove any one of the elements, or if you find that the defendant has proved the defense of [Describe defense.], your verdict will be for the defendant.


History

M Civ JI 116.21 was added September 1982. TOP

 
I am not a Cop, nor a Lawyer, not even a Medical Doctor, but I did once play a Klingon at Universal Studios!

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2010, 02:06:12 PM »
thought this would get more support. i was LEO and know all about lawful citizen arrest and kidnapping. i've handcuffed a guy to a trailer once to go chase his buddies down. i did forget to add flashlight to my list too. this was supposed to be helpful. would hate to be in a shooting situation in the first place but if i were then i would like to think i would need that stuff. i called oakland county sheriff's department and was told their units don't have usb port readers but probably still good to have that info. i don't think i would leave the scene to chase down a wounded BG to detain him especially in his neighborhood and never assume they are alone. he'll turn up sooner or later at a hospital if my aim was any good. if they are down wounded then the police have a duty to render first aid. we don't but would look better to authorities.

Perhaps I will post my EDC List that may help folks.

Primary Carry Gun Taurus PT111 or CZ82 both 12+1 +2 Spare Mags
Backup Polish P64 6+1 + 3 spare mags
Last Resort NAA .22Mag 5 Shot plus 10 rounds on speed strip

Leatherman Wave

LED 230 Lumen Flashlight

Sabre Red OC Spray

Cell Phone

Voice Recorder

The whole package weighs in at between 8 and 10 pounds depending on which primary i am carrying.

I also have contemplated carrying several Trauma Bandages as well... may have to add that to the EDC.



Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline kryptonian

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2010, 03:58:43 PM »
thanks autosurgeon - did any items on my list change your kit up any??
i don't fear the barking dog...i'm scared of the quiet dog

Offline NHCGRPR45

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2010, 04:52:10 PM »
well, those are all great things to have, but my carry kit has

1. Walther P99AS 9mm x 3 15rnd mags
2. small camera pouch with quikclot 1 cedar-roth bloodstopper bandage
3. benchmade RIFT fold axis lock knife
4. a bug in a pocket.

its a simple kit, light and can be taken anywhere without a huge amount of weight, i keep the heavy stuf in a car, better first aid kit road flares and blankets and a way to make a fire if i get stuck out side in a rural area.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such goverment, and to provide new gaurds for their future security. United States Constitution.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2010, 07:21:17 PM »
That reminds me I need to get the winter Car kit up to speed!
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline Bronson

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2010, 03:22:37 AM »
Perhaps I will post my EDC List that may help folks.

Primary Carry Gun Taurus PT111 or CZ82 both 12+1 +2 Spare Mags
Backup Polish P64 6+1 + 3 spare mags
Last Resort NAA .22Mag 5 Shot plus 10 rounds on speed strip

Leatherman Wave

LED 230 Lumen Flashlight

Sabre Red OC Spray

Cell Phone

Voice Recorder

The whole package weighs in at between 8 and 10 pounds depending on which primary i am carrying.

I also have contemplated carrying several Trauma Bandages as well... may have to add that to the EDC.

Jumpin' jimminy...do you clank when you walk?

Bronson
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2010, 07:38:26 AM »
Nope  ;D It's all about the proper clothing, Holsters and belt!
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline BTAvery

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2010, 12:19:59 AM »
When I can OC I carry a

squeeze charge flashlight (like the shaker but you squeeze it instead)
Kimber Pro Carry 7+1 1 sometimes 2 mags
Voice recorder
cellphone
extra cellphone battery
headphones
zune
Spyderco Delica 4 (2.88 inch blade)
Victorinox Swisstool (the rescue blade model) Blades all shorter than 3"
Gerber mini is like a inch half blade used for openning packages
wallet
a cpr mask with a set of gloves in it
on my wrist a "Fitzen Wrist Armor" and a watch
and as of late a 10x25 monocular

Offline lil_freak_66

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2010, 01:26:59 PM »
i carry 3 knives  with me in addition to the firearm.

One is a no brand 2.9 inch locking folder i got for 5 bucks,had it for a year works pretty good.
put in the magazine pouch on my holster.

then my general purpose knife,a casexx sod buster jr.(2.5 blade)had it for 5 years now and still goin good.
brown leather sheath on my left hip.

No brand multitool in a black nylon sheath behind my holster.

Mini Maglite Jr. next to my folder in the magazine pouch.

then i keep 5 feet of 550 aka para-cord in my back pocket,stuff has endless uses

On occasion,some pepper spray,but i need a new sheath/holster for that before i can again.

if im out in the woods though i carry more...much more
My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of  Michigan Open Carry Inc, any other organization, group, person or the law of this or any other municipality,state or country unless otherwise stated.

Offline BTAvery

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2010, 10:55:16 PM »
yeah in the woods I carry much more. (by the way the "Fitzen Wrist Armor" is made of 550 paracord like 10 feet supposedly)

Offline skunkworks

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2010, 01:46:08 PM »
Holy Wah, you fellas carry a lot.  No doubt that it all has it's place, but I choose to be more comfortable and look a bit less like Batman (maybe that is what some folks go for).  I mean no offense and wouldn't dream of telling someone they couldn't carry as much as they wanted, but for me it's a balance of risk and convenience. If the situation allows or I am traveling, I'll carry more, but my EDC essentials are:
1. XD-40
2. 80-lumen Flashlight
3. cell phone
4. Kershaw Blurr Tactical Tanto
5. Sometimes BUG in pocket.

I usually carry a pamphlet or 3 as well.  I know I should carry a voice recorder, but usually don't.
I often transition from OC to CC and back again several times through the day.  I just don't think I've got enough real estate to tote around as much as some of you.  Good on yah if you can.

Offline Bronson

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2010, 01:59:06 PM »
I'm the same way skunkworks.  I have a hard enough time finding real estate for the stuff I already carry.

* gun
* spare ammo
* keys
* wallet
* cell phone
* mp3 player/voice recorder
* pocket knife

A while back I had to stop carrying anything in my back pocket (sciatic nerve pain) except a couple of pamphlets so this limits me to the front pockets of my pants and maybe a shirt pocket, and I really do not want to look like a tacti-cool batman fan with a bunch of stuff on my belt.

Bronson
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

Offline BTAvery

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2010, 04:18:11 PM »
Well I carry nothing in my back pockets and my front pockets are bulging. Cargo Pants for the win. The only thing on my hip is ammo and Kimber.

Offline Bronson

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2010, 02:50:37 AM »
By any chance is this one of you guys?

Bronson
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

Offline BTAvery

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2010, 03:34:40 PM »
By any chance is this one of you guys?

Bronson

LMFAO nice thats not me but its one friggen clever video.

Offline DetroitBiker

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2010, 05:10:26 PM »
nobody  mentioned Shark repellent   :o ya never know when you might need it.  ;D





Offline emt805

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2010, 05:29:39 PM »
nobody  mentioned Shark repellent   :o ya never know when you might need it.  ;D


Nor that his finger is close to the bang switch on a cocked & loaded XD when he pulls it out of the holster then sets everything on top of it.

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: other items to have
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2010, 05:33:25 PM »
The video Bronson posted is awesome.