Author Topic: Think we can get "Texas Style" Castle Doctrine?  (Read 6298 times)

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Think we can get "Texas Style" Castle Doctrine?
« on: November 19, 2010, 02:06:37 PM »
With the changes in the state legislature, think there is any chance of getting "Texas Style" Castle Doctrine? That is to say anyone unlawfully on your property, or breaking in to your house, or car is automatically presumed to be intending to do you harm thus justifying deadly force, and also allowing deadly force to protect property?

The way I read it now, there is no duty to retreat, but if they are not actually trying to hurt you you have to stand there, and watch them rob you, is that correct?

Maybe make the law look something like this:

MCL 780.951 section 1 is amended in the following ways:

subsection 3 (b) is amended to ad at the end before the period a comma, then "or the land on which such building or other structure is located"
subsection 3 (c) is amended to ad at the end before the period a comma, then "or the land on which structure, or shelter is located"

The following subsections will be added at the end:

(4) Any person who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under subsections (1) or (5) shall be immune from all criminal or civil prosecution in any case resulting either directly or indirectly from that use of force, all liability is the responsibility of the person against whom force was used or their estate.

(5) A person may also use deadly force or force other than deadly force against a person described in subsection (1)(a) to:

(a)  to prevent the others imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft, or criminal mischief; or

(b)  to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft from escaping with the property; and  he reasonably believes that the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means.

(6) Subsection (5) shall not apply if the person against whom deadly force, or force other than deadly force is a person as described in subsection (2)(a)(b)(c)(d) or (e).

So the finished product would look like this (changes in red):

Quote
780.951 Individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force; presumption; definitions.

Sec. 1.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:

(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.

(b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).

(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if any of the following circumstances exist:

(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used, including an owner, lessee, or titleholder, has the legal right to be in the dwelling, business premises, or vehicle and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order, a probation order, or a parole order of no contact against that person.

(b) The individual removed or being removed from the dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle is a child or grandchild of, or is otherwise in the lawful custody of or under the lawful guardianship of, the individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used.

(c) The individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force is engaged in the commission of a crime or is using the dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle to further the commission of a crime.

(d) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is a peace officer who has entered or is attempting to enter a dwelling, business premises, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties in accordance with applicable law.

(e) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is the spouse or former spouse of the individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force, an individual with whom the individual using deadly force or other than deadly force has or had a dating relationship, an individual with whom the individual using deadly force or other than deadly force has had a child in common, or a resident or former resident of his or her household, and the individual using deadly force or other than deadly force has a prior history of domestic violence as the aggressor.

(3) As used in this section:

(a) "Domestic violence" means that term as defined in section 1 of 1978 PA 389, MCL 400.1501.

(b) "Business premises" means a building or other structure used for the transaction of business, including an appurtenant structure attached to that building or other structure, or the land on which such building or other structure is located.

(c) "Dwelling" means a structure or shelter that is used permanently or temporarily as a place of abode, including an appurtenant structure attached to that structure or shelter, or the land on which structure, or shelter is located.

(d) "Law enforcement officer of a Michigan Indian tribal police force" means a regularly employed member of a police force of a Michigan Indian tribe who is appointed pursuant to former 25 CFR 12.100 to 12.103.

(e) "Michigan Indian tribe" means a federally recognized Indian tribe that has trust lands located within this state.

(f) "Peace officer" means any of the following:

(i) A regularly employed member of a law enforcement agency authorized and established pursuant to law, including common law, who is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the general criminal laws of this state. Peace officer does not include a person serving solely because he or she occupies any other office or position.

(ii) A law enforcement officer of a Michigan Indian tribal police force.

(iii) The sergeant at arms or any assistant sergeant at arms of either house of the legislature who is commissioned as a police officer by that respective house of the legislature as provided by the legislative sergeant at arms police powers act, 2001 PA 185, MCL 4.381 to 4.382.

(iv) A law enforcement officer of a multicounty metropolitan district.

(v) A county prosecuting attorney's investigator sworn and fully empowered by the sheriff of that county.

(vi) Until December 31, 2007, a law enforcement officer of a school district in this state that has a membership of at least 20,000 pupils and that includes in its territory a city with a population of at least 180,000 as of the most recent federal decennial census.

(vii) A fire arson investigator from a fire department within a city with a population of not less than 750,000 who is sworn and fully empowered by the city chief of police.

(viii) A security employee employed by the state pursuant to section 6c of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6c.

(ix) A motor carrier officer appointed pursuant to section 6d of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6d.

(x) A police officer or public safety officer of a community college, college, or university who is authorized by the governing board of that community college, college, or university to enforce state law and the rules and ordinances of that community college, college, or university.

(g) "Vehicle" means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, that is designed to transport people or property.

(4) Any person who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under subsections (1) or (5) shall be immune from all criminal or civil prosecution in any case resulting either directly or indirectly from that use of force, all liability is the responsibility of the person against whom force was used or their estate.

(5) A person may also use deadly force or force other than deadly force against a person described in subsection (1)(a) to:

(a)  to prevent the others imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft, or criminal mischief; or

(b)  to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft from escaping with the property; and  he reasonably believes that the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means.

(6) Subsection (5) shall not apply if the person against whom deadly force, or force other than deadly force is a person as described in subsection (2)(a)(b)(c)(d) or (e).



Offline kryptonian

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Re: Think we can get "Texas Style" Castle Doctrine?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2010, 10:55:05 PM »
was LEO in texas in the 80's. you could use deadly force to prevent the commision OR FLIGHT THEREAFTER of murder, kidnapping, rape, robbery, theft or criminal mischief. there are a few case law guidelines like theft has to be something of higher value or has to be at night but was legal. i remember taking a report where a guy saw someone breaking into his car and shot him thru the windshield with a rifle. the thief was in the driver's seat and got hit in the forehead. had enough energy to open the door and walked about 10 feet before he fell dead. no charges filed.
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Offline jeffsayers

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Re: Think we can get "Texas Style" Castle Doctrine?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2010, 12:43:26 PM »
Is it right to take life on behalf of property?

Does the property have to be above a certain monetary value?

If so, then we must know the value of the life; just how much is a person's life worth anyway?

Once a standard of determining a monetary value of human life is determined, could a man sell himself into slavery to provide for his family?

Could a man sell his children into slavery to provide for the remainder of his family?

Would it still be ok if a man sold his daughter into the sex trade?

Could another man sell me into slavery?

If a man becomes indebted and later cannot repay his creditor, can they lay claim to his wife?

His daughter?

No, my heart is not bleeding here but a spade is a spade.
United we STAND!
I open carry for the same reason God gave poisonous animals bright colors.

Re: Think we can get "Texas Style" Castle Doctrine?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2010, 09:25:20 PM »
Is it right to take life on behalf of property?
Yes.
Does the property have to be above a certain monetary value?
No
If so, then we must know the value of the life; just how much is a person's life worth anyway?
The exact value of the item they were trying to steal
Once a standard of determining a monetary value of human life is determined, could a man sell himself into slavery to provide for his family?
Yes, it's his life, if he wants to be a slave that's his right.
Could a man sell his children into slavery to provide for the remainder of his family?
No, that's their life, he has no right to it.
Would it still be ok if a man sold his daughter into the sex trade?
No, that's her life, he has no right to it.
Could another man sell me into slavery?
No, that's your life, he has no right to it.
If a man becomes indebted and later cannot repay his creditor, can they lay claim to his wife?
No, that's her life, he has no right to it.
His daughter?
No, that's her life, he has no right to it.
No, my heart is not bleeding here but a spade is a spade.

Moral relativism doesn't work here, they break in, they take whats not theirs they are in the wrong what happens to them is their own fault.