Health care & Fire arms!

[CrossPistols]

I personally think that a person should not be denied treatment for an injury or illness. Just stich'em, and Bill them, if they cannot pay just garnishee their Paychecks.  As for Health Insurance well that is not a right, nor should it be. It should not be controlled by Govt. at all, and forcing me to buy it against my will is just Insane, as well as Un-Constitutional. Now if Barack HUSSEIN Obnoxious wants to claim it a right, and force me to buy private or be forced on Socialized heath care, then It would only be fare to Force every person to buy a Gun from a private seller, and if you cannot afford one, it shall be paid for by Uncle Sam. Could you just imagine  the look on Bama's face if he was forced by Supreme court order to offer Public firearms...LOL

[emt805]

Another stupid idea from obozo.

I'll keep my guns you can keep the change.

Oh yea, Don't blame me I voted for an AMERICAN!

[kryptonian]

i had a comment but i'll keep it to myself

[BTAvery]

I personally think that a person should not be denied treatment for an injury or illness. Just stich'em, and Bill them, if they cannot pay just garnishee their Paychecks.  As for Health Insurance well that is not a right, nor should it be. It should not be controlled by Govt. at all, and forcing me to buy it against my will is just Insane, as well as Un-Constitutional. Now if Barack HUSSEIN Obnoxious wants to claim it a right, and force me to buy private or be forced on Socialized heath care, then It would only be fare to Force every person to buy a Gun from a private seller, and if you cannot afford one, it shall be paid for by Uncle Sam. Could you just imagine  the look on Bama's face if he was forced by Supreme court order to offer Public firearms...LOL

WE should totally push that I think everyone would agree right? (some of my family are dead brain conservatives that don't think for themselves I'm going to use the above arguement)

[CV67PAT]

What seems to be missed in the discussion is that the Interstate Commerce Clause is the basis for forcing participation. But we are not allowed to participate in plans offered in any state other than our own?

How is that interstate commerce???

[BTAvery]

Yeah thats fubar. Also does anyone else have ads if so is MOC getting paid for them?

[CrossPistols]

Also the argument against  it is the fact that Interstate Commerce Clause (ICC) regulates  commerce between the stae Like Pat mentioned, but it doesn't regulate the non commerce. That is to say if I do purchase a service, or commodity then the Feds. can use ICC, but they cannot regulate what I don't buy! BECAUSE THERE IS NO COMMERCE! . To force me to buy a product, or service is and Plain EVIL & Sadistic....Barack and his Administration are the shinning examples of   Communist.  IMHO.

[Tao]

I'm writing this not as a libertarian or anything politically motivated. I'm writing this 100% based on what I see every day at work in my ER.

If obama-care gets passed and put into full effect, we are BONED.

It's largely based on the failed MA system. Let me reiterate. From where I sit on the front lines of healthcare, if obamacare passes, We. Are. Boned.

[CrossPistols]

 Medicare, & Medicaid were both Enacted to  "Re-leave the high cost of health care" They were both project to Lower the cost of health care, and the budgets were to be minimal, and both came in way over budget, and have actually raised the cost to everyone!   Not to mention how much control the Feds will have over every aspect of our lives, and it will be used to control Fire arms.

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

While I generally agree less Government = Better Government, please tell if you think health care insurance companies should be allowed to pick & choose who they cover? I'm not saying this plan doesn't need some major overhauling I'm just saying there are a few good points that seem to get overlooked. I know from my recent diagnosis with stage 4 cancer that if my insurance company was allowed to do whatever they pleased I would have been dropped like a piece of hot brass at the range. Thus leaving me to have to use every penny in the bank and then some to try to stay alive for my family.  Do you know that 60% of all personal bankruptcies in this country have a medical issue involved? So if we scrap the whole thing then what? Back to double digit raises in insurance premiums every year? At that rate no one but the rich will be able to afford insurance soon, correct?

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/health/bankruptcy.medical.bills_1_medical-bills-bankruptcies-health-insurance?_s=PM:HEALTH

[Super Trucker]

I personally think that a person should not be denied treatment for an injury or illness. Just stich'em, and Bill them, if they cannot pay just garnishee their Paychecks.

The problem with that thought is many who can not afford treatment, don't have paychecks to garnishee.

As for Health Insurance well that is not a right, nor should it be.

If health insurance is not a right, why should treatment be? Medical people spend their money to learn how to heal people, why should they do it for free?



BTW: I feel obummer care is going to cause more problems then it helps.

[BTAvery]

I personally think that a person should not be denied treatment for an injury or illness. Just stich'em, and Bill them, if they cannot pay just garnishee their Paychecks.

The problem with that thought is many who can not afford treatment, don't have paychecks to garnishee.

As for Health Insurance well that is not a right, nor should it be.

If health insurance is not a right, why should treatment be? Medical people spend their money to learn how to heal people, why should they do it for free?



BTW: I feel obummer care is going to cause more problems then it helps.

exactly

[CrossPistols]

While I generally agree less Government = Better Government, please tell if you think health care insurance companies should be allowed to pick & choose who they cover? YES! It's their Business! If you don't like it don't buy it! (Using that argument Auto insurers should insure stupid drivers, and people who already wrecked their Auto's), I'm not saying this plan doesn't need some major overhauling I'm just saying there are a few good points that seem to get overlooked. I know from my recent diagnosis with stage 4 cancer that if my insurance company was allowed to do whatever they pleased I would have been dropped like a piece of hot brass at the range. Thus leaving me to have to use every penny in the bank and then some to try to stay alive for my family.(While I feel for you and others, this is a simple issue with a simple solution, pass a law to prohibit that, we don't need to write a 2000 page communist bill, be thankful your not with cancer in 1901)  Do you know that 60% of all personal bankruptcies in this country have a medical issue involved?(that statistic is Arbitrary, & Capricious). So if we scrap the whole thing then what? Back to double digit raises in insurance premiums every year? (Your gonna get that anyways mark my words) At that rate no one but the rich will be able to afford insurance soon, correct?  (NO, the answer is get rid of third payer, and Stupid Law suits for starters)

Everything I said is only in debate, not anger. Bernie Mack once said "The world don't owe you a thing" I believe Government doesn't either. I'd rather take charity from my enemy, than the Government.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/health/bankruptcy.medical.bills_1_medical-bills-bankruptcies-health-insurance?_s=PM:HEALTH

[CrossPistols]

I personally think that a person should not be denied treatment for an injury or illness. Just stich'em, and Bill them, if they cannot pay just garnishee their Paychecks.

The problem with that thought is many who can not afford treatment, don't have paychecks to garnishee.  (There are charity's, and Grant, there are Organizations that will help, & most doctors will work with you on the Bill, there are also free clinics, and er rooms. Basically there are ways if you need Help. We are only entitled to the PURSUIT of Happiness

As for Health Insurance well that is not a right, nor should it be.

If health insurance is not a right, why should treatment be? Medical people spend their money to learn how to heal people, why should they do it for free?  (Never said Health Treatment should be a right, I said I think you shouldn't be denied!)



BTW: I feel obummer care is going to cause more problems then it helps.

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

I hope you never get sick , try to find a free clinic that does chemo & radiation ever? Can you afford these out of your own pocket? I doubt it. If you are fine one day and sick another it should be your right to expect the coverage you paid for and not be canceled correct? Oh the the free market: anyone remember how we got in the mess we are in right now?

[CrossPistols]

I hope you never get sick , try to find a free clinic that does chemo & radiation ever? Can you afford these out of your own pocket? I doubt it. If you are fine one day and sick another it should be your right to expect the coverage you paid for and not be canceled correct? anyone remember how we got in the mess we are in right now?

Again I am Sympathetic to your situation.  I hope I, my child, & my wife don't as well. We don't pay for Insurance, & buying insurance won't keep us from getting sick, won't heal us either.  At anytime I can Choose to buy Coverage, but I choose to pay the doctor . The money seems to be the issue, instead of looking for better private solutions for health care. It seems finding some one else to pay (Govt. Insurance/Socialism) is the popular way.   Life is valuable, Health care is expensive for a valid reason.  If I lost everything & had to start over it would still be better than anywhere else, and I'd rather have Private personal health care than Cheap, socialized "one blanket covers all coverage"   Until 1960's American medicine/care progressed by leaps and bounds, & at an Affordable cost (Considering Life is Very Valuable) & all with out Government intrusion. I don't mind Govt. Intervention, but Intrusion cost me, & I sure in the Hell have the right not to pay for other peoples Education, Mortgages, food, bad decisions, and most certainly Health care.  When the Govt. controls 100% of Health care they will control 100% of life, yours & Mine. It aint' fair for a minority of people who want free health care to make us suffer socialism.  Nazi's in '23', Roosevelt in "33" Congressman Ferrand.Walter Reuther in the late 50's - early 60's, Carter in the 70' and Obama now all wanted National Health care for One reason Control!

[BTAvery]

I hope you never get sick , try to find a free clinic that does chemo & radiation ever? Can you afford these out of your own pocket? I doubt it. If you are fine one day and sick another it should be your right to expect the coverage you paid for and not be canceled correct? anyone remember how we got in the mess we are in right now?

Again I am Sympathetic to your situation.  I hope I, my child, & my wife don't as well. We don't pay for Insurance, & buying insurance won't keep us from getting sick, won't heal us either.  At anytime I can Choose to buy Coverage, but I choose to pay the doctor . The money seems to be the issue, instead of looking for better private solutions for health care. It seems finding some one else to pay (Govt. Insurance/Socialism) is the popular way.   Life is valuable, Health care is expensive for a valid reason.  If I lost everything & had to start over it would still be better than anywhere else, and I'd rather have Private personal health care than Cheap, socialized "one blanket covers all coverage"   Until 1960's American medicine/care progressed by leaps and bounds, & at an Affordable cost (Considering Life is Very Valuable) & all with out Government intrusion. I don't mind Govt. Intervention, but Intrusion cost me, & I sure in the Hell have the right not to pay for other peoples Education, Mortgages, food, bad decisions, and most certainly Health care.  When the Govt. controls 100% of Health care they will control 100% of life, yours & Mine. It aint' fair for a minority of people who want free health care to make us suffer socialism.  Nazi's in '23', Roosevelt in "33" Congressman Ferrand.Walter Reuther in the late 50's - early 60's, Carter in the 70' and Obama now all wanted National Health care for One reason Control!

Yep that pretty much sums it up why should I have to pay.

[CrossPistols]

Amen BT!  Damn don't get me wrong, we as a community can solve more problems directly, than any Govt. entity. I have gave blood, helped build for people who needed help, I help my neighbors, I give to the coin boxes at McDonald's, and Wendy's every time I get change back. But those are free choices I made. Not Obamanation telling me whether you like it or not you will give. 

[BTAvery]

Amen BT!  Damn don't get me wrong, we as a community can solve more problems directly, than any Govt. entity. I have gave blood, helped build for people who needed help, I help my neighbors, I give to the coin boxes at McDonald's, and Wendy's every time I get change back. But those are free choices I made. Not Obamanation telling me whether you like it or not you will give.

Yep if I can afford to give you and I can help I will but I really don't give a rats ass about some hippy in Cali that needs my money so he can detox of his heroine addiction. Sorry but if he came to me and asked me for help and I thought he was actually willing to change I would help him.

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

Okay - I think you guys are missing the point so I'll spell it out. I agree that the less the government is involved is usually the best answer. However when it is you against a MULTI-BILLION dollar insurance carrier you alone do not have a snow balls chance in hell of getting a fair deal PERIOD! So in this case help is needed to grant a fair playing field. I have been in good health most of my life until recently and I felt similarly to you until I got sick. A typical stay in a cancer ward room can run $4,000 per night; not including chemo treatments & radiation treatments or meds. If a person such as myself gets cancer (head & neck) who has never smoked or drank in his life, it can happen to any of us. Then a surgery is required to remove the cancer which costs can cost anywhere between $35,000 to $100,000 depending the amount of tissue removed & the complexity of the procedure. In my case I am only half way through my treatment and the bills are nearing $150,000. http://www.surgery.com/article/radical-neck-dissection. I have always paid my way in life, but even the strongest man can be broken by this kind of financial and physical burden. Don't say "not me" because until you're there you just don't know.

If this kind of thing doesn't call for Government intervention, then tell me what does? The sad thing is in my honest opinion our government is no longer representatives of you and I so much as it is the mouth piece of "big money [wall street] / big business [banks etc..]. Notice who got help under TARP. Sure as hell wasn't Main Street USA was it?

So no one answers my question is this fair? If you think so then our country is doomed as we worship corporation greed and not the true spirit of "fair play/fair chance" our forefathers intended. The Fair market is far from fair as it has been allowed to be run by the golden rule: Those with the gold are making the rules & those with the gold seldom chose to advocate for the average American because often they are faceless foreign corporations who could give two craps less about you and I! Yet our high court rules they are equal to you and I and deserve the same rights! Come on people, WAKE UP!   

RANT OFF NOW - Peace be with you all.