Open Carry in MI PFZ's vs Federal law ?

[venator]

Theres a jail house lawyer in every crowd. Problem is, in most cases these lawyers havent been to jail...

In most case they haven't been to jail

YET

Oh I've been.

[TheQ]

Theres a jail house lawyer in every crowd. Problem is, in most cases these lawyers havent been to jail...

In most case they haven't been to jail

YET

I've been booked and criminally fingerprinted, does that count?

[wardog6t]

Unless you are in the Orange suit facing the judge on a video camera for your arraignment. You havent been to jail! Therefore your jail house doctrine is not a qualiying degree... Furthermore if you have not taken the bar, your opinion of the law is just that...Ignorance of the law which is stated in the case of law is no excuse to violate the law. Which in most cases in which your plee is to that effect is the first thing out of the Judges mouth. To attempt to cop a plee of stupidy or ignorance in a firearms related charge especially in a open carry case is even more reason for the court to slam you with the maximum sentance.

[jsxtreme]

but venalator said it is for lil freak

Sigh -- read this.

I don't have permission to read that

[jsxtreme]

Thanks for the..... help? Nevermind I guess I'll figure it out on my own.

[wardog6t]

Hello,

My name is Justin. Some of you might know me from over on the MI gun owners forum.


The question I have, is how is it that open carrying in PFZ's with a CPL legal, with the Gun free school zones act of 1990? It's this section that allows us to OC in school property with a CPL, correct?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

Correct! You must have a CPL to open carry on school premises. Make Damn sure your firearm is in plain site OPEN!

[BTAvery]

Hello,

My name is Justin. Some of you might know me from over on the MI gun owners forum.


The question I have, is how is it that open carrying in PFZ's with a CPL legal, with the Gun free school zones act of 1990? It's this section that allows us to OC in school property with a CPL, correct?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

Correct! You must have a CPL to open carry on school premises. Make Damn sure your firearm is in plain site OPEN!

I read that and from how I see it anyone that has been given a purchase license should be able to carry on school property.

[wardog6t]

In our State. You can "Open Carry"

[Bronson]

I read that and from how I see it anyone that has been given a purchase license should be able to carry on school property.

That would cover you for the Federal law but Michigan law says you must have a CPL in order to carry on school property, with a different Michigan law which forbids concealed carry on school property.  So, no concealed carry on school property and OC is only allowed with a CPL, per MI law.

28.425o prohibits concealed carry on school property (edited for relevance):

28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
Sec. 5o.

(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

750.237a prohibits weapon possession on school property without a concealed weapon license (edited for relevance):

750.237a Individuals engaging in proscribed conduct; violation; penalties; definitions.

Sec. 237a.

(1) An individual who engages in conduct proscribed under section 224, 224a, 224b, 224c, 224e, 226, 227, 227a, 227f, 234a, 234b, or 234c, or who engages in conduct proscribed under section 223(2) for a second or subsequent time, in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a felony punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:

(a) An individual employed by or contracted by a school if the possession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

So no CPL = no possession on school property.  The MI License to Purchase/Possess would only allow you to OC in the Federal 1000 ft. zone but not on school property.

Clear as mud?

Bronson

[BTAvery]

Thank you bronson I didn't intend on ocing but the knowledge is useful.

[venator]

SCHOOL ZONE.--
<< 18 USCA § 922 >>
  (1) IN GENERAL.--Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end
the following new subsection:

 "(q)(1)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm at a place that the
individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

"(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to the possession of a firearm--
 
 "(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
 
 "(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school
zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political
subdivision requires that, before an individual obtain such a license, the law enforcement
authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to
receive the license;

One could argue that one would have to know a place was a school in order to be in violation.

One could argue that a purchase permit is a license to possess a firearm (since the element for the exemption is a background check.).

In this particular instance there is an argument that a public library supported by municipal funds would qualify as a school (regardless of the claimed ownership of the property.  Research the definition of a school zone in both state and federal laws).