Michigan Open Carry, Inc.

General Category => Off Topic Stuff => Topic started by: Jeff on June 29, 2014, 01:20:06 AM

Title: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on June 29, 2014, 01:20:06 AM
http://youtu.be/06aRQ-ejqmU (http://youtu.be/06aRQ-ejqmU)
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: gryphon on June 29, 2014, 09:23:03 AM
Hahaha!
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: bigt8261 on June 30, 2014, 10:59:21 AM
Nice.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 02, 2014, 08:58:17 AM
They didn't post their results
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 09, 2014, 10:46:18 AM
ill stick to my .40 S&W. but i will probably get a 9mm at some point but i love my 40's
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 09, 2014, 10:48:40 AM
He needs an intervention
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 09, 2014, 11:04:45 AM
He needs an intervention
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on July 09, 2014, 12:39:15 PM
He needs an intervention

Who brad for having a .40 S&W?
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 09, 2014, 12:40:27 PM
Chuckles

Yup
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on July 09, 2014, 12:45:51 PM
He's always camouflaged, we would never be able to find him for the intervention.  Plus his firearm shoots more powerful rounds  (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-stargate004.gif) (http://www.thescifiworld.net/smilies.htm)
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 09, 2014, 12:53:31 PM
Lol. Good one
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 09, 2014, 12:57:04 PM
lol yep the redneck in realtree. i like my super snappy 180 gr 40 cal rounds.  ;D
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 09, 2014, 01:36:16 PM
Why not carry .50 300 gn?
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 09, 2014, 01:37:24 PM
because the pistol that felt good in my hands and i shoot well only comes in 40 or 9mm lol.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 09, 2014, 01:52:04 PM
.40 isn't giving you access recoil?
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on July 09, 2014, 02:09:15 PM
.40 isn't giving you access recoil?

NAH, .40 isn't bad to shoot.  Now if it was the "NON short and wimpy .40" then I would say it had too much recoil.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 09, 2014, 02:11:13 PM
.40 comes in two different lengths?
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on July 09, 2014, 02:50:20 PM
.40 comes in two different lengths?

10mm
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: gryphon on July 09, 2014, 02:50:43 PM
.40 comes in two different lengths?
Not exactly. :>)

There was the 10mm, but its recoil was deemed excessive in terms of training for the average FBI agent and police officer competency of use and qualification. so the FBI downloaded it to 10mm Lite.  With the Lite loading the case was now excessively long, longer than it needed to be, so Smith & Wesson and Winchester collaborated and figured out they could now shorten the case while duplicating the 10mm Lite loading and make it fit into a smaller, 9mm platform.  Thus, the 10mm Lite became the .40S&W.

(After this, SIG-Sauer and Federal Ammunition collaborated and necked the .40 S&W down to accept a 9mm bullet, thus the .357 Sig was born).

So yes, there "kind of" is a .40 Long, the 10mm.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 09, 2014, 03:31:24 PM
interesting so how does the 40 compare to the 9 with recoil when using the same model gun?
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 09, 2014, 03:36:40 PM
interesting so how does the 40 compare to the 9 with recoil when using the same model gun?

the 9mm purrs and the 40 barks..

to expand on the 10mm-.40 talk.

10mm cases are longer. hence the 40 short and weak name in the .40 S&W

both are loaded with a .401 projectile though. same bullet. different case and powder measures
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: gryphon on July 09, 2014, 03:49:28 PM
Typically snappier.  The 9mm is usually softer shooting because you are shooting a lighter bullet using less charge.  But so is the .45 ACP (softer shooting, due to a number of factors).  The trade-off is that a single stack .45 holds less rounds, and a double-stack .45 is large.

OTOH, a lot of .380 Autos are snappy, too.  A lot has to do with the weight and size of the gun.  Polymer guns with abbreviated grip sizes and barrel lengths suffer from this in general.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 09, 2014, 04:30:47 PM
Typically snappier.  The 9mm is usually softer shooting because you are shooting a lighter bullet using less charge.  But so is the .45 ACP (softer shooting, due to a number of factors).  The trade-off is that a single stack .45 holds less rounds, and a double-stack .45 is large.

OTOH, a lot of .380 Autos are snappy, too.  A lot has to do with the weight and size of the gun.  Polymer guns with abbreviated grip sizes and barrel lengths suffer from this in general.

SD 40 with a 4 inch barrel jumps like a kangaroo when shooting. i made a few mods to mine to help tame the recoil. i also enjoy my 14+1 capacity and conceal-ability of the 4 inch barrel firearm
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: gryphon on July 09, 2014, 05:02:42 PM
Supposedly 80% of the police agencies use .40 S&W.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 09, 2014, 06:42:40 PM
I see.

ill stick with 9mm.

some guy did a study on shot statistics from the police and determined 40 to be the best. But from what i read, a review of his studies showed that he chose select data that supported his personal opinion, and if you look at it non bias like, .380 up to 45 all have the same leatheality. 80% 1 shot, 90% two shots.

its all about shot placement. a .22 in the heart will out kill a .50 in the leg, or a .45 in the chest not hitting organs.

surgeons actually, hate working on someone shot with a .22. it hits bone and bounces around doing damage everywhere, whereas larger rounds make one clean channel.

or so i'v read/been told
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: gryphon on July 09, 2014, 07:13:22 PM
I would disagree on the .380.  It is a notoriously underpenetrating round.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Shadow Bear on July 09, 2014, 07:39:44 PM
I shot some 'hot 40's' after shooting some nuclear loads in 10mm. The 40 made me chuckle...
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 10, 2014, 08:06:08 AM
I would disagree on the .380.  It is a notoriously underpenetrating round.

yeah .380 has been known to not make it through thick winter clothing. for that reason my BUG is no longer a .380 and i carry a sig p250 compact in 9mm as a backup
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 10, 2014, 11:28:27 AM
.380 to 9mm would only really mean a slightly smaller handle in width, which would make it harder for dudes with bigger hands to hold the handle.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on July 10, 2014, 04:51:28 PM
Yeah, I know all about shooting NUCLEAR LOADS.....aaaa-OOOOOOOO!!!!!!  ^5 anyone?...  anyone?.....   :-X
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 11, 2014, 08:51:41 AM
.40 sucks
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 11, 2014, 10:16:41 AM
.40 sucks

.40 is a good round... probably the most common CC caliber as you can get adequate firepower with a smaller framed pistol. my LGS sells more m&P 40's than 9's same with the SD series and other makers of firearms. he said .40 is his best selling caliber.

saying .40 sucks is suggestive and a matter of personal opinion not backed up by facts. find me some documentation stating ".40 sucks" to back you opinion and i may change mine :)
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 11, 2014, 10:36:18 AM
.40 $19.99 a box
9 $16.99 a box
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 11, 2014, 11:12:34 AM
.40 $19.99 a box
9 $16.99 a box

price? i was thinking you would throw some kind of stat like the amount LEO's who carry 9 vs 40. or say the 9mm is more powerful with higher FPS. honestly what i pay for .40 reloads is the same as what i pay for 9mm reloads from my reloader. so that price difference doesnt affect me.

now when it comes to ballistic testing...
(http://thetacticalinformer.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/ballistics-gel640.jpg)

that speaks for itself
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on July 11, 2014, 11:33:12 AM
That 135 grain sucks? :p
Title: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: TheQ on July 11, 2014, 11:45:26 AM

price? i was thinking you would throw some kind of stat like the amount LEO's who carry 9 vs 40. or say the 9mm is more powerful with higher FPS. honestly what i pay for .40 reloads is the same as what i pay for 9mm reloads from my reloader. so that price difference doesnt affect me.

now when it comes to ballistic testing...
(http://thetacticalinformer.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/ballistics-gel640.jpg)

that speaks for itself

The .40 135 is the only one that under-penetrates?
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 11, 2014, 12:29:32 PM
The .40 135 is the only one that under-penetrates?

it would appear so. i carry 180 gr win ranger Tseries.

i shoot 165 gr reloads as well as 180 gr reloads. never shot a 135 gr.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 11, 2014, 12:35:02 PM
See. Told ya .40 sucks
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 11, 2014, 12:42:31 PM
no, 180 gr leave a larger wound cavity and penetrates just as well as 9mm 147 gr. why leave a shot glass sized hole in someone when you can leave a beer glass sized hole in them?>

my mom loves her 9mm's but then again she cant handle the recoil of a .40 or .45

girly man loves 9mm :) real men use 40 or 45


we could turn this into a pissing match. but i don't think that's necessary. once it hits the ammo dump we are free game for pat and im scared of him
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 11, 2014, 01:14:34 PM
Your proportions are of

I don't want a peeing match. Mine is a little short and I don't want to be embarrassed
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 11, 2014, 01:37:23 PM
i suppose it comes down to use what you are comfortable and accurate with. everyone has opinions, do what you want. afterall this is america
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: gryphon on July 11, 2014, 02:06:10 PM
I've never seen or even heard of 135gr. 40S&W.  The round was developed for 180gr., and there are some 165gr. and 155gr. SD loads.
Title: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: TheQ on July 11, 2014, 02:11:47 PM
The OP likely knew (or should have knew) the mere mention of this topic would turn into a caliber holy war.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on July 11, 2014, 03:04:34 PM
Those slightly larger stretch cavities don't mean all that much in a human.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 11, 2014, 03:57:39 PM
while im sure anything above a 9mm will be sufficient for SD it will come down to a personal preference. i like my snappy 40 short and weak rounds
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: gryphon on July 11, 2014, 09:26:39 PM
Warwick, RI Police Ditch .9mm for .40

http://warwickonline.com/stories/Cops-shake-out-lead-at-weapons-qualification,94111 (http://warwickonline.com/stories/Cops-shake-out-lead-at-weapons-qualification,94111)

 :troll:
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on July 11, 2014, 11:53:09 PM
Not because it's better but because they wanted all the ammunition standardized and just chose .40  OBVIOUSLY because it was drawn out of a hat. 

I HAVE SPOKEN!
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Shadow Bear on July 12, 2014, 02:48:00 PM
I'd carry my 45 Super, but the muzzle flash keeps setting my targets on fire....
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on July 12, 2014, 03:22:14 PM
I'd carry my 45 Super, but the muzzle flash keeps setting my targets on fire....

haha, heck yeah.  And the concussion force also makes their wimpy 9mm jam so not only do you kill their body AND soul, you also set them on fire and make their lesser caliber gun malfunction.  ;D
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 14, 2014, 08:02:28 AM
all ym sheriff buddies working for the macomb county sheriff are issued m&P 40's the few detroit police say they were issues glock 23's by the department
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 14, 2014, 09:20:36 AM
Those slightly larger stretch cavities don't mean all that much in a human.

From what I read, if you take the data of police shooting people, all calibers end up having the same leathality rate. So the only variable is shot placement.

if that is to be true, then none of the calibers are any better than the rest, its all about what gun you like and do well with and how it handles the caliber its designed for.

as i said, the .380 i shot had horrible kick, worse than guns iv shot with more powder. im sure there are some .380's that handle it as well as my 9.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 14, 2014, 09:21:43 AM
also, .40 sucks!
Title: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: TheQ on July 14, 2014, 09:58:40 AM
Shooting with peas is very effective too. Ask Dan Griffin :)
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 14, 2014, 10:05:03 AM
I don't know what that means.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 14, 2014, 10:28:02 AM
my gf has a hipoint 9mm. its heavy and the slide is stupid heavy for a poly gun. however the weight makes it have what i see as virtually no recoil. my sd is more bottom heavy and has some nice muzzle flip. its the gun not the ammo that dictates shot placement. ive shot .380 that have littlerecoil as well on like no muzzle flip.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 14, 2014, 10:33:33 AM
What is muzzle flip?
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: gryphon on July 14, 2014, 10:56:18 AM
That's the recoil impulse that makes the muzzle of the pistol (front of the gun) rise or "flip up" up when shot, hence muzzle flip.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 14, 2014, 11:16:58 AM
.40 is known for being "snappy" or causing great muzzle flip. i can tame it on my firearm though. making reaquisition of target quicker.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 14, 2014, 02:25:03 PM
Never herd someone call it muzzle flip instead of muzzle rize
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: SD40VE on July 14, 2014, 02:31:47 PM
most websites ive seen and article call it muzzle flip where the muzzle flips up
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on July 14, 2014, 04:36:20 PM
.40 is known for being "snappy" or causing great muzzle flip. i can tame it on my firearm though. making reaquisition of target quicker.

But can you tame it shooting one handed firing off 3 shots per second as you use your offhand to deflect a knife while ducking a baseball bat from the other guy?


AS far as my opinion on Calibers.  I am plenty happy carrying 9mm.  But I can see a situation where my 9mm round just SLIGHTLY misses the heart where as a larger diameter bullet could put a slice into it.  But the attacker can still be lethal even without a heart until the oxygen in your brain runs out.  So it's MEH, carry whatever you are comfortable with.  A .22 on the hip is better than a howitzer in your night stand.

...How awesome would that be.
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 14, 2014, 04:39:04 PM
howitzers can't do short range
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: Jeff on July 14, 2014, 04:42:22 PM
howitzers can't do short range

Just put it on an incline or on it's side :)
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: birddseedd on July 15, 2014, 09:31:24 AM
well. i was thinkin of making a stainless cannon.
Title: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: TheQ on July 16, 2014, 06:29:35 PM
Did someone say stainless...?
Title: Re: 9mm v .45 finally settled.
Post by: part deux on July 16, 2014, 07:31:33 PM
Did someone say stainless...?

Don't say it three times, you don't want this to be like beetlejuice :)