Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: gryphon on July 21, 2014, 11:59:17 AM
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(http://pad2.whstatic.com/images/thumb/0/09/Hold-and-Fire-a-Desert-Eagle-Step-5.jpg/670px-Hold-and-Fire-a-Desert-Eagle-Step-5.jpg)
If you are going to shoot a target on the head, aim for the neck or chest as the recoil rises the gun which also rises the bullet from going forward. This is very handy if you have a target which you will aim for the head. Even aiming at his arm may hit his/her head.
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Where is this posted?
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Click (http://www.wikihow.com/Hold-and-Fire-a-Desert-Eagle)
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shotgun hold lol. im not steven segal so i cant do that.
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Dang, if recoil happened before the bullet exited we would all be hitting the rafters, especially with those snappy .40's
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Dang, if recoil happened before the bullet exited we would all be hitting the rafters, especially with those snappy .40's
i actually did a cpl class recently over the weekend with my woman. i took part in the range qualifying as a guinnea pig for some situations and different tactical shooting situations. my snappy 40 call hit the targets each time in the needed area. its not bad once you learn to handle the recoil and snappyness. and it takes less to stop a threat than a 9mm. where you may need 2-3 shots from a 9mm a 40 may only need 1
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it takes less to stop a threat than a 9mm. where you may need 2-3 shots from a 9mm a 40 may only need 1
SHHHhiiiiiiiiiiiiii Tell that to Treyvon.
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SHHHhiiiiiiiiiiiiii Tell that to Treyvon.
tell zimmerman. kinda pointless to tell trayvon now.... unless you plan on seeing him soon....
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Try the "shotgun" hold with a Glock 18c! HA!
Someone's trolling.
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Try the "shotgun" hold with a Glock 18c! HA!
Someone's trolling.
thats the select fire right? iirc the 18 was the full auto version
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it takes less to stop a threat than a 9mm. where you may need 2-3 shots from a 9mm a 40 may only need 1
Saw this on the MOC fb social page (who knew we had one? I didn't until now).
.45 ACP, the midlife crisis of calibers.
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10491268_10152582214955432_4168748890258319522_n.jpg)
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Saw this on the MOC fb social page (who knew we had one? I didn't until now).
It's linked to on our homepage...
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http://youtu.be/QuiePszwaho (http://youtu.be/QuiePszwaho)
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http://youtu.be/QuiePszwaho (http://youtu.be/QuiePszwaho)
sometimes i have dreams about justin beiber hahaha
i like .40, ive shot .380,9mm,45,358,38 i find the 40 to be suitable for what i need to use it for
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sometimes i have dreams about justin beiber hahaha
i like .40, ive shot .380,9mm,45,358,38 i find the 40 to be suitable for what i need to use it for
So you have "habitual compromise disorder"?
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He also has the why I carry .45 video and a 9mm one, both are good. :)
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.358
For the times when .357 just isn't enough?
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For the times when .357 just isn't enough?
Bazing!
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lmao. i didnt compromise. i tried alot of different guns and settled on this gun in this caliber. me being a bigger guy, i can handle the snappiness and the muzzle flip of the .40 on my SD very well. i dont feel as though the gun is trying to jump out of my hand.
we preach go with what feels right and what you can shoot well. for me its the .40 in a SD from smith
.358 was a typo. dicks lol :)
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lmao. i didnt compromise. i tried alot of different guns and settled on this gun in this caliber. me being a bigger guy, i can handle the snappiness and the muzzle flip of the .40 on my SD very well. i dont feel as though the gun is trying to jump out of my hand.
we preach go with what feels right and what you can shoot well. for me its the .40 in a SD from smith
.358 was a typo. dicks lol :)
An if you want a little extra punch with the .40S&W you can go to a +P load. Or a +P+ .40S&W load.
Oh wait, my mistake. There is no such thing as a +P or a +P+ .40S&W.
Nevermind.
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pretty sure my 180 GR will get it done. i have bonded win ranger and normal win ranger. both good rounds in the top 3 with HST and gold dot
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I used to have a ford ranger, it was gold.
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I used to have a ford ranger, it was gold.
lmao...must be one of those fun mornings!!! everyone took some smartass pills today
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8)
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An if you want a little extra punch with the .40S&W you can go to a +P load. Or a +P+ .40S&W load.
Oh wait, my mistake. There is no such thing as a +P or a +P+ .40S&W.
Nevermind.
Sure there is -- KABOOOOOOM!
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An if you want a little extra punch with the .40S&W you can go to a +P load. Or a +P+ .40S&W load.
Oh wait, my mistake. There is no such thing as a +P or a +P+ .40S&W.
Nevermind.
im sure the standard 180 gr does well for penetration, wont need a extra punch like the 147gr +p 9mm.
when you have the perfect round, you dont need more than 2 grain options or +p or +P+ options.
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If it's extra punch you want, why be such a middle of the road wimp with .40? Why not just step up and go with 10mm?
:troll:
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I still would like to s/w, sheild. Carry On.
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bigT How much is 10mm vs 40cal ammo?
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im actually looking at a 10mm from EAA.
.40 ammo is easy to find. 10mm not so easy
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bigT How much is 10mm vs 40cal ammo?
you're going to let cost dictate personal safety?
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you're going to let cost dictate personal safety?
cost isnt why i chose 40 over 10mm. availability is.
also 10mm options are slim
i do like the glock 20 though :)
.40 is a more than capable round
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pretty sure my 180 GR will get it done. i have bonded win ranger and normal win ranger. both good rounds in the top 3 with HST and gold dot
Not as well as a .45ACP 230gr +P or a 9mm 124gr +P+.
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Not as well as a .45ACP 230gr +P or a 9mm 124gr +P+.
and what does you new glock use? :-X
a quick google search got me this:
.38 Spl.: This cartridge is considered by many experts to be the minimum necessary for adequate personal protection, along with the .380 ACP listed below. For decades, this was the standard round for law enforcement and it served well, even using the plain round-nose lead ammunition. Anyone who chooses this soft-kicking cartridge today will be even better served thanks to the availability of specialized self-defense ammunition.
.357 Mag.: As the name implies, this is a powerful cartridge with a reputation for producing one shot stops against two-legged predators. That power runs both ways and it can be tough to handle for some. One notable benefit here is that, since this is just a .38 Spl. with a slightly longer case and a lot more power, revolvers cambered for .357 Mag. can be loaded with .38 Spl. for recoil-sensitive family members. The reverse, however, does not apply.
.380 ACP: Long popular for small semi-auto pistols in Europe and countries where possession of military calibers is restricted, the .380 ACP (or 9 mm Short) cartridge has taken America by storm in the last few years. This is thanks to the increased popularity of concealed carry and the ability of this cartridge to fit very small guns. Much like the .38 Spl. above, it is considered a minimum self-defense cartridge, but was used for decades by European police officers and, most famously, by James Bond.
9 mm: Consider the perennial European cartridge, the 9 mm is fast, straight shooting, light kicking, easy to find and cheap to shoot. It is equally at home in full-size guns as in small concealed-carry ones. It is for these reasons that it is in such widespread use among modern law enforcement agencies and militaries (including ours) worldwide. It is more than sufficiently powerful enough for self-defense with proper ammunition and easy for beginners to master.
.40 S&W: Is it better to have big, powerful rounds or more of them? This is America, so why not both? The .40 S&W cartridge is a less-powerful version of the 10 mm, and it offers heavy bullets with a lot of velocity, while remaining comfortable for most to fire with magazine capacity that is close to that of a similar-sized 9 mm pistol. The .40 S&W is a favorite among many law enforcement agencies and individuals focused on self-defense, and for good reason.
.45 ACP: This is the American cartridge: big, loud and powerful. Nearly half an inch in diameter, hollow-point ammunition resembles a flying ashtray as much as a bullet can. This heavy, slow-moving cartridge was the standard for the U.S. military for over 70 years and served on every battlefield (and still does) where Americans have fought. While it has stout recoil, it feels more like a push that a jab, and with practice, it is manageable by most and preferred by many.
In the end, the key is to get out to the range and try out a variety of guns and calibers to find the one you like best. Just like buying a car, if you are only getting one to share, it is always best to test drive it and make it a family decision.
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and what does you new glock use? :-X
Hey, that's a low blow.
I had to buy that Glock. If it were up to me, I'd carry my HK USP45.
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Hey, that's a low blow.
I had to buy that Glock. If it were up to me, I'd carry my HK USP45.
just curious as to what kind of ammo is in the glock. easy question sir :)
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I could find many articles that say 9mm is the best and the other calibers are stupid.
You are very defensive on that .40 lol. Do you have royalties in the design or something?
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I could find many articles that say 9mm is the best and the other calibers are stupid.
You are very defensive on that .40 lol. Do you have royalties in the design or something?
nope but i love that round and everyone is entitled to their opinion. mine is the .40 is the best defensive round. as the article i read states, best of both world. extra punch vs the 9mm with better mag capacity vs 45acp
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How often do you go shooting at CQT? I want to feel the might of the .40 one of these days.
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How often do you go shooting at CQT? I want to feel the might of the .40 one of these days.
depends on my funds. i am also waiting on a part from smith and wesson for it. a new takedown as mine comes loose at times. it still fires but is very scary when the slide moves as much as it does. its been benched for now and i carry my BUG as my main at this time :(
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Dang high pressure rounds beating your gun to death :(
Was that you that said your backup was a Shield?
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Don't over look the 'Related wikiHows' at the bottom.
How to Buy a Pistol (http://www.wikihow.com/Buy-a-Pistol)
"Do you want something that could fit in your pocket or something that would be a nuisance to carry around all day in a holster. (I.E. a .357 magnum)"
I wish someone would have told me that five years ago. :sarcasm:
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An if you want a little extra punch with the .40S&W you can go to a +P load. Or a +P+ .40S&W load.
Oh wait, my mistake. There is no such thing as a +P or a +P+ .40S&W.
Nevermind.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=25 (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=25)
http://georgia-arms.com/new40smithandwesson155grgolddothollowpointp100pk-1.aspx (http://georgia-arms.com/new40smithandwesson155grgolddothollowpointp100pk-1.aspx)
http://georgia-arms.com/new40smithandwesson165grgolddothollowpointp1000pk.aspx (http://georgia-arms.com/new40smithandwesson165grgolddothollowpointp1000pk.aspx)
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What kind of crazy SOB would use +p+ with a .40 It doesn't need anymore pressure.
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460 or go home
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If it's extra punch you want, why be such a middle of the road wimp with .40? Why not just step up and go with 10mm?
:troll:
Who wants extra punch? Why don't the 9mm people go with 10mm?
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Who wants extra punch? Why don't the 9mm people go with 10mm?
'Cause I want the second round center mass and the third on the top shelf, not both sailing into the sunset.
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9mm 124gr +P+.
What's the SAAMI specs on 9mm +P+ again?
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'Cause I want the second round center mass and the third on the top shelf, not both sailing into the sunset.
So if someone chooses a .40 over a 10mm because they don't want the extra recoil, they're wimpy and compromising, but if someone chooses a 9mm over a 10mm because they don't want the extra recoil, they're smart?
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So if someone chooses a .40 over a 10mm because they don't want the extra recoil, they're wimpy and compromising, but if someone chooses a 9mm over a 10mm because they don't want the extra recoil, they're smart?
You missed my point and a step...
If someone chooses the .40 over the 10mm because they can handle the recoil better, they are smart. If someone chooses the 9mm over the .40 because they can handle the recoil better, they are smart. If someone chooses the 380acp over the 9mm because they can handle the recoil better, they are smart.
I can shoot a 45ACP (Kimber 1911) better than I can shoot a .40S&W (M&P Shield, Glock 23), but I shoot a 9mm better than both. Am I wimpy and compromising because I don't carry a 45?
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Am I wimpy and compromising
Don't know about wimpy, but compromising? Yes. The point is, though, that EVERY gun and round is a compromise in size, power, and capacity.
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We 9mm guys don't carry a 10mm because we don't want to kill the attacker, an engine block, a fire hydrant, and extinguish the sun every time the gun is fired. :)
I actually do want to get something in 10mm and carry it :)
But the real reason is, there is no point, dead is dead, there is no extra dead.
I did tons of research when deciding on my carry gun and caliber. After realizing we're just splitting hairs here with calibers for SD rounds I got what I wanted. Others got what they wanted. I'm happy with mine, they are happy with theirs. I will never call my choice better or best because it isn't the best for everyone. But every caliber is the "best" depending on who ran the test so the bottom line is shoot what you are comfortable with.
One thing that sucks is that I shoot a Glock 30 better than my 19 GRRRRRRR lol. But as I practice more I have gotten much better with my 19. But that was with practice, the G30 just felt so natural that I didn't really need practice. I shot a Kimber 1911 and hated it, I couldn't shoot it worth a darn, the back safety kept pinching me, it was uncomfortable to hold BLEH!
I went shooting many months ago and a friend brought a woman who had never fired a gun in her life. She shot my Glock 19 9mm, and shot my friends (something that I don't remember all steel) in .40 and because of the weight difference of the gun, she said my 9mm kicked more.
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What's the SAAMI specs on 9mm +P+ again?
That's a NATO load.
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Dang high pressure rounds beating your gun to death :(
Was that you that said your backup was a Shield?
either a sheild or a sig p250 in 9mm yes
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Dang high pressure rounds beating your gun to death :(
To what "high pressure" rounds are you referring? 9mm +P? .40 S&W?
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To what "high pressure" rounds are you referring? 9mm +P? .40 S&W?
+P+ has to be pretty high pressure.
i know 40 is pretty dang high in pressure as well lol
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+P+ has to be pretty high pressure.
i know 40 is pretty dang high in pressure as well lol
9mm is 35,000 PSI.
.40 S&W is 35,000 PSI. How is that higher pressure?
9mm +P is 10% higher, 38,500 PSI. There is no such thing as +P+. If a manufacturer sells something he calls +P+ ammo, you have no idea if it is 111% of standard pressure or 125% of standard pressure. All you know is someone loaded the round up hotter than standard (and presumably even hotter than +P).
The .40 S&W is ballistically an FBI 10mm Lite. The .40 is precisely a 10mm Lite using a shortened case to allow high capacity in a smaller gun.
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pretty sure my 180 GR will get it done. i have bonded win ranger and normal win ranger. both good rounds in the top 3 with HST and gold dot
Not as well as a .45ACP 230gr +P or a 9mm 124gr +P+.
That's a NATO load.
I don't know where you're getting that the 9mm NATO is a +P+ loading or better than a .40 Gold Dot or HST. It isn't even better than a 9mm Gold Dot or HST!
Contrary to the misinformation posted most places, there is nothing at all hot or special about the 9mm 124 grain NATO load. The velocity figures that people like to throw around for the 9mm 124 grain NATO round are from test barrels, (7.85” EPVAT barrels to be specific) not actual pistol barrels. Even when fired from a Beretta 92, with its 5 inch barrel, the 124 grain NATO round doesn’t even come close to the velocities people claim. In fact, there is little difference in velocity between the 9mm 124 grain NATO round and a modern standard pressure 9mm 124 grain hollow point round.
As an example, the chronograph printout shown below is from the Speer 124 grain Gold Dot (standard pressure load) fired from a Beretta 92. The instrumental velocity at 21 feet is 1114 fps.
(http://www.box.net/shared/static/6qhibittqd.jpg)
Now take a look at the next chronograph printout. This printout is from the Winchester 9mm 124 grain NATO load fired from the same Beretta 92, fired immediately after the Gold Dot load was fired. The instrumental velocity at 21 feet is 1108 fps; 6 fps less than the Gold Dot load.
(http://www.box.net/shared/static/t7y4024qhq.jpg)
Here is some additional chronograph data, this time comparing Federal's 9mm 124 grain NATO load to several other 124 grain duty loads. All loads were fired from a SIG Sauer P229 with a 3.8" barrel. Note that the 9mm NATO load is the slowest load in the table.
(http://www.box.net/shared/static/zzytjvjkhx.jpg)
9mm NATO is a standard pressure load, not some super hot load (although some designations for sub-guns are supposed to be hotter, I have yet to see C.I.P. pressures for 9mm NATO), but you're shooting round nose, not hollow point, and you're not getting any better velocity than standard self-defense ammo. What you are getting with 9mm NATO is a round with less stopping power.
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we're just splitting hairs here with calibers for SD rounds
Although placement is more important than the round, I would not agree that we are just "splitting hairs." If you can get a larger caliber or a "significantly" higher speed (like rifle speed), it's worth considering.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/bullets/9mm4045HST.jpg)
Many people compromise and shoot a 9mm instead of a .45 ACP because it is easier shooting, lighter, and carries more rounds. Nothing wrong with that. The only issue is when people start shooting rounds which have inadequate power. 9mm is generally considered the least one should carry (e.g., no .380 ACP).
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All calibers have been proven to be crap in some tests and godly in other tests. We are just splitting hairs here with calibers. Any caliber is capable of a one shot stop, some have taken 20 rounds to bleed a person out. Doesn't matter what caliber it was you could interchange the guy that was shot 10 times and lived with a different caliber and he probably still would have lived because of where the bullet went. It's POSSIBLE the bigger round could have nicked something to bleed a person out faster.
I have seen some badly deformed .45's that look like crap after going through gel where a certain brand of 9mm was better, I have seen some 9mm's not expand same with 40's and 45's so yeah, we're just splitting hairs with calibers. they have all been proven effective and less effective at different times.
I won't throw rifle rounds into the mix of pistol rounds though, that's not fair.
I don't see how 9mm is the "least" what bias person wrote that test up, what is the max (probably the caliber they carry), why are all ammo made to the same standards in performance in SD rounds. Why do the tests I see of 9mm penetrating just as well as 45's. Still the only way the attacker stops is when their brain stops because it is no longer getting oxygen, the extra bullet size might make them pass out a whole few seconds faster not that it's a bad thing because it isn't, but it's such a slight difference. And anyone could go into instant shock from any caliber so..splitting hairs.
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I don't see how 9mm is the "least" what bias person wrote that test up
Most pro firearms instructors will tell you that you shouldn't carry a caliber less powerful than 9mm. This is based on years of objective cartridge testing. The .380 ACP is a notoriously underpenetrating round, and some suggest that if you do carry .380 to carry FMJ to mitigate that. Having said that, I don't care what you carry, it is your life. People have been shot with .25 ACP and died. Would I carry a .25? No.
What I object to is people who criticize others for the caliber they carry, if it is an effective round, and the argument against .40 most often used is that it is a compromise caliber. Hey, guess what, all rounds and pistols are a compromise.
Person A: You shoot a .40? That’s a compromise round.
Person B: Yes, I compromise size for capacity, and it has more muzzle energy than .45 ACP. What do you shoot?
Person A: 9mm (G19, M&P, XD).
Person B: And you’re not compromising round size or power for recoil? GTFO.
Person A: You shoot a .40? That’s a compromise round.
Person B: Yes, I compromise size for capacity, and it has more muzzle energy than .45 ACP. What do you shoot?
Person A: 9mm (G26, Shield, XD-S, LC9).
Person B: And you’re not compromising round size or power or capacity or sight radius or barrel length or grip area (amplifying the slightest operator error) for gun size? GTFO.
Person A: You shoot a .40? That’s a compromise round.
Person B: Yes, I compromise size for capacity, and it has more muzzle energy than .45 ACP. What do you shoot?
Person A: 9mm, +P
Person B: Why, so you can get .40 standard pressure velocity only with less power using a smaller bullet because 9mm standard load is insufficient? GTFO.
Person A: You shoot a .40? That’s a compromise round.
Person B: Yes, I compromise size for capacity, and it has more muzzle energy than .45 ACP. What do you shoot?
Person A: 9mm, Buffalo Bore +P+++++
Person B: Why, so you can get .40 standard pressure ballistics using a smaller round because 9mm standard load is insufficient? GTFO.
Person A: You shoot a .40? That’s a compromise round.
Person B: Yes, I compromise size for capacity, and it has more muzzle energy than .45 ACP. What do you shoot?
Person A: .380 ACP (G42, P3AT, LCP, P380, P238, Bodyguard)
Person B: And you’re not compromising round size or power or capacity or sight radius or barrel length or grip area (amplifying the slightest operator error) or penetration for a tiny gun that’s small and easy to carry using a round with notoriously poor stopping power? GTFO. Now.
Every gun and round is a compromise in some respect. A pistol is a compromise for a rifle. 5.56 NATO is a compromise for 7.62 NATO. A .45 ACP is a compromise for a .357 Magnum (by most accounts), yet cops jumped on the chance to use a .45 ACP over a .357 Mag. Shoot what you want and what you can control and what you will carry.
People who criticize .40 S&W carriers are just like the CCers who criticize OCers, and they do it using the same myth tactics. Stop it.
Curiously enough, we don’t see the same controversy and condemnation with .357 Sig as we do with the .40, even though a) it is more expensive than .40, so you’re not going to shoot it as much, b) it has much more blast (noise/pressure) and isn’t as pleasant to shoot as the .40, so you’re not going to shoot it as much, c) it isn’t as soft shooting as the .40, so you’re not going to shoot it as much, d) because of the necked down cartridge it is harder to reload than the straight-walled .40, so you might not shoot it as much if you are a reloader. So I would say that if the choice of going to a .357 Sig means you’re not going to shoot it as much in practice during the year, it’s probably a poor carry choice. Like the 10mm, it’s not a novice cartridge.
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lowly .22LR has one of the highest death rates of any of the calibers... however, it's not very good as a drop right now round.
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lowly .22LR has one of the highest death rates of any of the calibers... however, it's not very good as a drop right now round.
thats because it ricochets inside the body.
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We all know the best SD round is Oddjob's hat.
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I was told years ago tjat if you are forced to shoot somebody with a handgun, your goal is to make them leak. Once they leek enough they stop, is a 115gr round going to make a hole as big as a 230gr round?
I am just a trucker but basic math makes me think a bigger hole will leak more.
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First shot: Is he still coming after you? shoot again.
Second shot: Is he still coming after you? shoot again.
Third shot: Is he still coming after you? shoot again.
4th shot (only for us 9mm guys): Is he still coming after you, shoot 6 more times.
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First shot: Is he still coming after you? shoot again.
Second shot: Is he still coming after you? shoot again.
Third shot: Is he still coming after you? shoot again.
4th shot (only for us 9mm guys): Is he still coming after you, shoot 6 more times.
17th shot....why the hell wont he stop...oh yeah i have a 9mm hahahaha... reload time
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17th shot....why the hell wont he stop...oh yeah i have a 9mm hahahaha... reload time
46 rounds GD IT, I'm out of ammo. Good thing that guy walks slower than hell, maybe I should just run away.
Attacker: GD mosquitos are bad this time of year.
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46 rounds GD IT, I'm out of ammo. Good thing that guy walks slower than hell, maybe I should just run away.
Attacker: GD mosquitos are bad this time of year.
+1
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46 rounds GD IT, I'm out of ammo. Good thing that guy walks slower than hell, maybe I should just run away.
Attacker: GD mosquitos are bad this time of year.
Maybe, just maybe you might want to consider shot placement :)
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Shot placement is only for people trying to get pregnant.
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lowly .22LR has one of the highest death rates of any of the calibers... however, it's not very good as a drop right now round.
[[fact]]
That's Wikipedia language for "citation needed".
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[[fact]]
That's Wikipedia language for "citation needed".
Wut? Have I EVER mislead you? LOL
This isn't facebook, I get to make it up to fit my argument...
But just for you
(http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/publicfiles/Ellifritz_Incapacitation.png)
source (http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power)
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This isn't facebook, I get to make it up to fit my argument...
In God we trust. All others must show data. :D
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In God we trust. All others must show data. :D
dang it, all the rules, I can't take all these rules :)
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that 32 is a bad mamma-jamma
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that 32 is a bad mamma-jamma
The results of the .32 are umm "surprising?".
maybe the limited amount of data points?
It is an interesting article with a couple of surprises. Kind of reinforces the idea that any gun is better then no gun.
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thats just it, any gun is better than no gun.
shoot what you are accurate and comfortable with.
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Who carries a .32, and what type of encounters are they more likely to be in? My guess is they had good shot placement because they were real close!
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Who carries a .32, and what type of encounters are they more likely to be in? My guess is they had good shot placement because they were real close!
i rarely see .32 ammo anywhere. i know the dam store up in oscoda has 1 box for like $35 lol i dont even know a firearm made in the caliber thats for sale. my LGS doesnt carry any .32's