Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
Open Carry Specific => OC Questions => Topic started by: springfield40xdm on March 13, 2012, 04:07:28 PM
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I am wondering if I open carry to a barber shop and while in the chair am I breaking any laws? I don't have my CPL yet and by definition it would be concealed. Any feed back would be great. Thanks
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Don't do it without a CPL.
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I figured I just wanted to make sure, thanks Q
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TheQ,
I know someone brought up a similar question at the seminar I attended a few weeks ago. But they referenced it in relation to a movie theater.
Isn't it a similar type thing if I'm turned my strong side away from you so you couldn't see my gun? From your angle you might not be able to see it, but I'm not concealing it. What if I'm at a park sitting at a picnic table and my gun is more under the table?
Is this more just to play things on the safe side? Goofy things like this have led me to not OC much yet since my CPL hasn't arrived. Only a few walks and on my own property.
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TheQ,
I know someone brought up a similar question at the seminar I attended a few weeks ago. But they referenced it in relation to a movie theater.
Isn't it a similar type thing if I'm turned my strong side away from you so you couldn't see my gun? From your angle you might not be able to see it, but I'm not concealing it. What if I'm at a park sitting at a picnic table and my gun is more under the table?
Is this more just to play things on the safe side? Goofy things like this have led me to not OC much yet since my CPL hasn't arrived. Only a few walks and on my own property.
IANAL.
A aprin that covers the gun would definitely be concealed as there an an AGO (or something -- no time to find the cite right now) that says if a hunter is out hunting he cannot put his coat over the weapon if it starts raining because he'd be CCW.
The general rule is: would the gun be visible to a casual and untrained observer?
Answer yes? It's open
Answer no? It's concealed.
Apply those guidelines.
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Sorry Q....the whole apron thing totally didn't register. I was more thinking of the chair blocking your firearm, not being totally covered by the apron.
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Sorry Q....the whole apron thing totally didn't register. I was more thinking of the chair blocking your firearm, not being totally covered by the apron.
Assuming you get your hair cut without an apron...you probably would be okay if it was "observable to an untrained and causal observer"
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TheQ,
I know someone brought up a similar question at the seminar I attended a few weeks ago. But they referenced it in relation to a movie theater.
Isn't it a similar type thing if I'm turned my strong side away from you so you couldn't see my gun? From your angle you might not be able to see it, but I'm not concealing it. What if I'm at a park sitting at a picnic table and my gun is more under the table?
Is this more just to play things on the safe side? Goofy things like this have led me to not OC much yet since my CPL hasn't arrived. Only a few walks and on my own property.
IANAL.
A aprin that covers the gun would definitely be concealed as there an an AGO (or something -- no time to find the cite right now) that says if a hunter is out hunting he cannot put his coat over the weapon if it starts raining because he'd be CCW.
The general rule is: would the gun be visible to a casual and untrained observer?
Answer yes? It's open
Answer no? It's concealed.
Apply those guidelines.
OH GOODy ;0 This applies to IWB Exposed too ??????
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OH GOODy ;0 This applies to IWB Exposed too ??????
This question came up in a court case in Michigan which didn't set binding precedent.
In that case, the court found an IWB was not readily visible to a casual/untrained observer. Of course, the police officer was able to see it because he was a "trained observer" *rolls eyes*
For this reason we recommend an OWB.
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OH GOODy ;0 This applies to IWB Exposed too ??????
This question came up in a court case in Michigan which didn't set binding precedent.
In that case, the court found an IWB was not readily visible to a casual/untrained observer. Of course, the police officer was able to see it because he was a "trained observer" *rolls eyes*
For this reason we recommend an OWB.
As I recall, the CCW charge was just an add on to many other charges in that case.
I don't know of a single case where IWB carry was the only factor in a CCW charge.
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As I recall, the CCW charge was just an add on to many other charges in that case.
I don't know of a single case where IWB carry was the only factor in a CCW charge.
Our standard advise remains. Carry otherwise (without a CPL) at your own risk and possibly to your own detriment.
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I'm not arguing, I just don't think it *SHOULD* be that way.
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I'm not arguing, I just don't think it *SHOULD* be that way.
I wasn't arguing either. Just stating what the standard advise is and remains to be *shrugs*
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I don't know of a single case where IWB carry was the only factor in a CCW charge.
I do. The victim's attorney was doubtful about convincing a jury that it was not concealed. The victim's attorney was convinced that the prosecutor would pursue prosecution with great zeal. The victim plea bargained to a lesser charge.