Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
Open Carry Specific => OC Questions => Topic started by: G36shooter on July 07, 2014, 05:06:28 PM
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Please clarify, If a Walmart sells beer and wine, no liqueur, is OC allowed?
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750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
Walmart is licensed under the Michigan Liquor Control Act. To legally OC at Walmart, you will need at least one of the exceptions listed in Section 2. The most common exception is (c) someone with a CPL. If you opt for (d), permission from the owner or agent, get it in writing first.
Also be aware, a location doesn't need to sell alcohol to be licensed by the MLCC. The state publishes liquor licenses here: http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/mlcc/liclists/liclis4.htm (http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/mlcc/liclists/liclis4.htm)
cite: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-234d (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-234d), http://miopencarry.org/moc_files/brochure.pdf (http://miopencarry.org/moc_files/brochure.pdf)
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That is how I interpret the statute. The OC'er I spoke with claimed that because Walmart only sold beer and wine he was able to OC. Was not going to argue his interpretation of the law, he can do that before a Judge if he gets dinged. He stated that he does not have a CPL, I offered him a tri-fold and wished him well.
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being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
Read those. I suspect they define a license for someone l like crapmart vs an actual bar or liquor store
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being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
Read those. I suspect they define a license for someone l like crapmart vs an actual bar or liquor store
There are multiple licenses available, the biggest two divisions being on-premise (a bar) and off-premise (a store). Regardless, they are both licensed under the statute.
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There are multiple licenses available, the biggest two divisions being on-premise (a bar) and off-premise (a store). Regardless, they are both licensed under the statute.
what does "sections 436.1 to 436.58" state? do those sections define on-premise? if so, there would be other sections that define off-premise.
or does "sections 436.1 to 436.58" define both?
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It doesn't matter what the liquor law says it only matters what the firearm law says as you cannot use the definitions from one law to define another. This is not a grey area.
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doesnt seem grey to me, the gun law references the specific parts of the liquor law that apply, the rest do not apply.
hard to say more without reading the referenced sections.
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Asked and answered in Reply #1
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Apparently reading is hard.
Is the establishment licensed, at all, under the act?
Yes?
Then see subsection two if you want to OC.
Really not that hard. Really, it's not.
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Actually, I'm going to reopen this thread until Phil or someone else relocks it, as there is further information.
birddseedd pointed out that MCL 436.2301, and it indeed is the case, that 436.1 to 436.58 have been repealed.
However, examining 436.2303 Subsection 6...
(6) A reference to a provision in former 1933 (Ex Sess) PA 8 is considered to be a reference to the successor provision in this act. A reference in any application, document, authorization, order, license, or other document issued or provided by the commission or its authorized agent to former 1933 (Ex Sess) PA 8 is considered to be a reference to this act.
As such, I'm still inclined to believe the restriction to be in place, as the successor is PA 58 of 1998, MCL 436.1101 et seq.
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That is how I interpret the statute. The OC'er I spoke with claimed that because Walmart only sold beer and wine he was able to OC. Was not going to argue his interpretation of the law, he can do that before a Judge if he gets dinged. He stated that he does not have a CPL, I offered him a tri-fold and wished him well.
I don't know about your local Wal-mart, but the one here in Adrian sells liquor. The selection is poor, but they sell liquor.
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if i recall even beer and wine sellers are licensed under LARA
http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/mlcc/liclists/liclis4.htm (http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/mlcc/liclists/liclis4.htm)
im thinking if they are on this list, you cant oc without a cpl
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if i recall even beer and wine sellers are licensed under LARA
http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/mlcc/liclists/liclis4.htm (http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/mlcc/liclists/liclis4.htm)
im thinking if they are on this list, you cant oc without a cpl
Just to be clear for folks reading this on the web - without a CPL or equivalent permit from another state(s) recognized by MI, you cannot OC or CC in those places. This means that most party stores, 7-11, Circle K, grocery stores and even some gas stations are no carry zones in MI for non permit holders. :(
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forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?74449-OC-Liquor-License-CPL-Repealed
I dunno the answer, I suspect you could get into trouble.
Anyone know a gun lawyer?
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forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?74449-OC-Liquor-License-CPL-Repealed
I dunno the answer, I suspect you could get into trouble.
Anyone know a gun lawyer?
This isn't that difficult.
OC in a Michigan Wallmart without a CPL is a misdemeanor.
There is nothing more to say.
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This isn't that difficult.
OC in a Michigan Wallmart without a CPL is a misdemeanor.
There is nothing more to say.
And I'm going to once again lock the thread. Asked/answered!