Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: fsr402 on December 01, 2012, 08:46:12 PM
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Took a CPL class today at Port City Pistol in Muskegon.
I feel it was a good class and well run, although I don't think I made any friends of the instructors or the police chef by wearing a MOC shirt. lol
The first speaker seemed fine and talked about how you don't have to have it concealed and if someone sees your gun don't worry about it.
The 2nd guy not so much. He felt the need to tell us a story about how he and his father were detained for 45+ minutes when someone seen his fathers gun while they were eating lunch and called the cops. Of course he did not say when this was either. Someone asked about OC and he flat out lied and said that you MUST have them concealed at all times and that no one can see them. He even went as far as to say that you CAN NOT OC on private property like at Meijer's (looking right at me) ... I kept my mouth shut and just let it go.
I did have a guy at lunch ask me if I had a hard time keeping my mouth shut when he was speaking. I said I did a little but I did not want to be "that guy" nor did I want a 20 minute debate about the laws and so on. I answered a bunch of his and his wife's and told them to check this place out to learn more.
We then had the range time with their supplied MK3's and ammo. Shot 60 rounds or so with different drills. Had a good time with that.
Took the "test" in between the last two rounds of the range then headed back to the class room.
The last speaker was the police chef and he did the legal part of it. He was good but again, anytime something about OC came up he was looking right at me.. One point he said something like "yes, you are allowed to open carry. There is nothing we can do about it but PLEASE, don't do it. Someone WILL call and we WILL have to show up and it's not any fun for any of us."
I sat there shaking my head because less then 5 minutes before this he was talking about southern Texas and how every where you look someone has a gun on their hip and that people there are so used to it that no one ever notices it.
I so wanted to speak up right then about that. But then I remembered that I still did not have the signed paper from them yet and didn't want any problems.
I'll try to get the papers filed Monday and maybe if I'm lucky after the new year, I'll be all ready to carry whatever way I want.
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he was talking about southern Texas and how every where you look someone has a gun on their hip and that people there are so used to it that no one ever notices it.
OC is illegal in Texas. (https://www.msu.edu/~griffin/icon/lol.gif) I wouldn't have kept my mouth shut about that or the other things you noticed. But I'm like that. :) It never affected my grades at university (that I could tell).
But thanks for the post. Glad at least you knew the truth. 8)
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I actually did not know OC was illegal in Texas. I may have said something had I known that.
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Where did you take the class?
What were the instructors names?
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I actually did not know OC was illegal in Texas. I may have said something had I known that.
Yes, OC is illegal in six states (and D.C.) Believe it or not Texas and Florida are two (crazy, right?) I bet you can guess a couple of others: Illinois and New York. The other two you may not guess are Arkansas and South Carolina.
Oh, major kudos for wearing an MOC shirt to your CPL class. (https://www.msu.edu/~griffin/icon/lol.gif)
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It was at Port City Pistols in Muskegon. The first speaker was Greg Meier, the 2nd was Mark (Wiseman I think his last name is). There was a girl that spoke after him about defending your home and gun storage and how to set up your house to be easily protected but I don't recall her name and I can't find any info online that would give it to me. The Police chef I never got his name. Everyone that knew him was just calling him "chef" and I was in the last group on the range so by the time I got back into the class room he had already started speaking.
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Mind documenting your experience in the CPL class sticky in this forum?
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I took my class at Port City also. Was told the same thing about OC. Cops will be called, blah blah blah. If it was the same LEO that was at my class it was Rodger Doctor. He is a retired chief from Ottawa Co. Old guy, on the larger size? I did mine in April. FYI, the gun board meets on the third Tuesday of the month. I put my application in on the third Monday, got a post card in the mail the next week on Tuesday or Wednesday to pick up my CPL on Friday at the county building.
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wow it took just that long that's cool and my cpl class he didn't want me to oc but he said he does some times
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It's bad enough we have the general public thinking all sorts of incorrect things about firearms carry, but we also have to worry about firearms carriers themselves being filled with wrong information and "knowledge" of laws that don't exist by incompetent and unqualified instructors.
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I think my Bro in law went to port city as well, He said the old chief in regards to OC said dont be THAT guy.
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I took my class at Port City also. Was told the same thing about OC. Cops will be called, blah blah blah. If it was the same LEO that was at my class it was Rodger Doctor. He is a retired chief from Ottawa Co. Old guy, on the larger size? I did mine in April. FYI, the gun board meets on the third Tuesday of the month. I put my application in on the third Monday, got a post card in the mail the next week on Tuesday or Wednesday to pick up my CPL on Friday at the county building.
Yes that would be him.
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I think my Bro in law went to port city as well, He said the old chief in regards to OC said dont be THAT guy.
For getting the paper so you can file I think this class was a good deal, it's $50 cheaper then the Silver Bullet and they supply the gun and ammo.
I did not make a fuss and maybe I should have but really, it is a "concealed carry class". I think it's up to us as the gun owner and carrier to KNOW and UNDERSTAND the laws and not just run with what one or 3 people can tell you in a few hours.
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I agree with you the goal was the license, however if they are wrong about the laws on this and let their opinions cloud what they say, what else are they missing? I agree with what you did
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I had my class at my house and we went to Peters Indoor Range & Gun Shop for the shooting part the instructor NRA certified C.M.Novess 3rd from Executive Firearm Training the whole class went good I loved the way he always used when you shoot somebody that's paper work and if you can avoid shooting somebody no paper work
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For getting the paper so you can file I think this class was a good deal, it's $50 cheaper then the Silver Bullet and they supply the gun and ammo.
In general I actually agree with you simply because you are knowledgeable and savvy enough to search out the answers to self defense situations and the laws for yourself. You already know about valuable resources such as MOC and MGO and use them, and how to look up MCL (Michigan Complied Law) and read it for yourself.
On the other hand, if you were more sheeple-like and learned nothing beyond what the CPL class taught, you'd do yourself a disservice not to get the best class without regard to cost.
You are already miles ahead of most of the 340,000 CPL holders. If you could have afforded it, the extra $50 would have been worth it, though. In the larger picture, $50 over time isn't that much, especially when talking about something like carrying a firearm and self-defense.
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But then again, I figured I saved $50 on the class and about $40 on the ammo and did not have to add more wear to my pistol. I highly doubt the other class would have taught me anything I don't already know.
I'm a little OCD really. When I get into something, no matter what it is I research the hell out of it. Until I know everything I can about it. This drives my wife crazy though. lol
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I too took my CPL at Port City pistol. it is the best priced class around, I live 45 min. from there and travel was worth the experience. I got into a "discussion" with the former chief of police of Norton Shores as well and that was the least enjoyable experience of the class. my class was over 2 years ago when this stuff was still not well known around the City of Muskigon. After the class I have sent every legal update that deals with open carry both via email and through the mail hoping to change the class's outlook on open carry.thee are good guys, they just push there own opinions too much. I Shop there frequently and they have never cared about me open carrying in the store, although Garry's guns across town has a very negative view on open carry( well 2 years ago when I talked to them about it), but awesome prices on handguns.
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I spent six years stationed at ft hood in texas.
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yes, open carry of a handgun/pistol is illegal in texas.
Open carry of a long gun is a legal activity in texas.
Carry of a shotgun in vehicle, on person, loaded or empty was legal at the time I left.
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(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/028/440/Old-LastYearAirlines.jpg)
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But then again, I figured I saved $50 on the class and about $40 on the ammo and did not have to add more wear to my pistol. I highly doubt the other class would have taught me anything I don't already know.
I'm a little OCD really. When I get into something, no matter what it is I research the hell out of it. Until I know everything I can about it. This drives my wife crazy though. lol
OCD and wear 'n tear on a pistol don't go together. I got over mine. I clean it and lube it, but scratches happen. A quality, well maintained firearm can last for generations. Don't let wear and tear get in the way of practice.
Kudos on how you handled the CPL class. My instructor didn't like open carry and I too kept my mouth shut. I should have worn an MOC t-shirt instead of open carrying to my class. I was told to put it back in my car. ;( The company's website now states... "If you bring your own gun, please leave it in your car until we go to the range to shoot."
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The company's website now states... "If you bring your own gun, please leave it in your car until we go to the range to shoot."
NRA rules forbid firearms and ammo in the classroom, except under specific guidelines used in the class.
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NRA rules forbid firearms and ammo in the classroom, except under specific guidelines used in the class.
What are the circumstances? We had firearms but no ammo in the classroom for the class I attended. He had us handling the unloaded handguns in the classroom.
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Right or wrong, legal or not. They will handle things they way they want in their class it seems.
I'm pretty OCD myself, but as far as wear on my firearm I like it. It makes me happy to know the barrel is getting the slide wear and a little discolorations from holsters.
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NRA rules say no live ammo. Firearms are ok but they must be unloaded.
The training manual repeatedly says NO LIVE AMMUNITION.
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NRA rules say no live ammo. Firearms are ok but they must be unloaded.
The training manual repeatedly says NO LIVE AMMUNITION.
There were firearms with live ammunition displayed in the classroom. A 1911 with a dutch load of Winchester Black Talons and Glaser Safety Slugs.
Jeff, was the same firearm and rounds displayed in yours?
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Off topic, now that BigT is a certified NRA instructor, does this mean MOC will hold classes now?
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Off topic, now that BigT is a certified NRA instructor, does this mean MOC will hold classes now?
IIRC, MOC has done a few on the east side of the state in the past. I've been considering doing one on the west side somewhere. If there is enough demand, we can probably get one set up.
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There were firearms with live ammunition displayed in the classroom. A 1911 with a dutch load of Winchester Black Talons and Glaser Safety Slugs.
Jeff, was the same firearm and rounds displayed in yours?
There were no firearms in class except for the CC'd firearms the instructor had and the one the EX-cop who taught the law portion had. I use the terms "instructor, and teaching the law" very loosely.
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There were no firearms in class except for the CC'd firearms the instructor had and the one the EX-cop who taught the law portion had. I use the terms "instructor, and teaching the law" very loosely.
This goes against what the training manual says, but I understand not wanting to follow this particular item. Think of it this way. You just advertised a class on guns where there will likely be a few present. What's to stop someone from coming into the classroom and taking the firearms?
Ex-cop? Oh boy. There is an unsettled debate about whether or not a LEO can teach the PPITH legal portion in Michigan. One thing that is clear though is that LEO does not mean ex-LEO. In my experience, ex-LEO's are the worst offenders when it comes to not following the class and state law.
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My class was a circus of information. All of it wrong, I tried to let everything go in one ear and out the other because I had learned everything before taking my class and almost everything that was said was incorrect. But whatever, I was there to get my certification. Although I don't think I would call anyone that took his class certified as almost everything he said was wrong. All he did was certify that everyone in his class passed what was in his eyes good information. Our "test" seemed legit, but the rest of the information....meh. I need to forget it ever happened, it was a dark time.
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And this is why having a 'training' requirement is stupid, arbitrary, and capricious.