Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
Open Carry Specific => OC Questions => Topic started by: daveslim182 on October 10, 2011, 11:49:01 AM
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If I legally transport my pistol (in the trunk, unloaded, etc), am I permitted to open carry upon exiting my vehicle? Example: Driving to the park and then getting out of my vehicle, opening the trunk, removing the pistol from the case, loading it and then open carrying. I DO NOT have a CPL. Thanks
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If I legally transport my pistol (in the trunk, unloaded, etc), am I permitted to open carry upon exiting my vehicle? Example: Driving to the park and then getting out of my vehicle, opening the trunk, removing the pistol from the case, loading it and then open carrying. I DO NOT have a CPL. Thanks
In short the answer is yes PUBLIC parks are fine. Make sure when putting on the pistol you have no part of your body inside the vehicle, this can be construed as you being IN the vehicle, thus a Concealed charge.
for my own piece of mind, when I OCed without a CPL I was extra cautious to ensure that not only did I keep all parts of the body out of the car, ie, sitting on the seat when putting the pistol in my holster, and that at no time did i swipe my barrel in anyone's direction.
be careful, be diligent and you should be just fine
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:) +1 Randy Carry On.
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is the law differant for black powder pistols
I am a civil war reenactor
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As long is it is legal for you to possess a firearm and you follow the law regarding OC you & your BP pistol should be fine.
Here is some reading materials for you:
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html (http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html)
From the FAQ section:
2. I have a replica of an antique pistol. Is a License to Purchase or Pistol Sales Record required in Michigan? Is it necessary that I obtain a Michigan Concealed Pistols License?
MCL 28.422 No, antique pistols made before 1898 and replicas of antiques that use black powder, matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system do not require a License to Purchase. The pistol is still subject to all concealed pistol licensing laws.
From this it would seem that you can OC a BP pistol, however you should consult a lawyer before doing so, if you have any doubts. I know there are several member who carry them. Member CrossPistols comes to mind. To legally OPEN carry a modern pistol [Non CPL holders] it must be carried only by the registered owner in a proper, fully visible holster (via a Purchase Permit ).
Hope this helps.
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If I legally transport my pistol (in the trunk, unloaded, etc), am I permitted to open carry upon exiting my vehicle? Example: Driving to the park and then getting out of my vehicle, opening the trunk, removing the pistol from the case, loading it and then open carrying. I DO NOT have a CPL. Thanks
The important part is to load & holster the pistol [carefully] OUTSIDE of the vehicle. Before I got my CPL I would back into a parking spot, remove the cased pistol, laying the case on the ground, open it, load & holster it in the empty holster already on my belt, then walk to my destination. Be very careful to avoid stores/places that have a liquor license. Legally you cannot even be on their property while you have a properly stowed firearm in your vehicle without a CPL! Stupid but thats the law as of today.
The law (written by weasels & often abused by them) is goofy. So do not set your case on the bumper or roof/hood etc.. It is legal for you to have a loaded magazine or speed loader as long as it is stowed away from the firearm (and to be safe out of the reach of the occupants of the vehicle).
On a positive note if you have a friend or family member that has a CPL you can ride with them and they legally can hold onto your loaded holstered pistol until you get to where you are going. Then once they and you are outside of the vehicle they can simply give it to you and then you put it on. A holster with a belt clip is the best for this ;) Then reverse the process when you leave. This avoids all the loading and unloading in public. :o
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If I legally transport my pistol (in the trunk, unloaded, etc), am I permitted to open carry upon exiting my vehicle? Example: Driving to the park and then getting out of my vehicle, opening the trunk, removing the pistol from the case, loading it and then open carrying. I DO NOT have a CPL. Thanks
Legally you cannot even be on their property while you have a properly stowed firearm in your vehicle without a CPL! Stupid but thats the law as of today.
I think that you are giving erroneous legal advice here.
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If I legally transport my pistol (in the trunk, unloaded, etc), am I permitted to open carry upon exiting my vehicle? Example: Driving to the park and then getting out of my vehicle, opening the trunk, removing the pistol from the case, loading it and then open carrying. I DO NOT have a CPL. Thanks
Legally you cannot even be on their property while you have a properly stowed firearm in your vehicle without a CPL! Stupid but thats the law as of today.
I think that you are giving erroneous legal advice here.
9mmOS's advice is the current MOC "Party Line". When I tell people, I always tell them the subject is debated.
I also add they can probably find a defense attorney that says it's okay -- and I can find a DA who will prosecute you for it.
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If I legally transport my pistol (in the trunk, unloaded, etc), am I permitted to open carry upon exiting my vehicle? Example: Driving to the park and then getting out of my vehicle, opening the trunk, removing the pistol from the case, loading it and then open carrying. I DO NOT have a CPL. Thanks
Legally you cannot even be on their property while you have a properly stowed firearm in your vehicle without a CPL! Stupid but thats the law as of today.
I think that you are giving erroneous legal advice here.
For a NON-CPL holder, they cannot transport on MLCC licenesee property is my understanding. I would be happy to be wrong here PAT. Can you help us out with a cite? Thanks in advance Sir ;)
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I am of the opinion that you are correct insofar as the statute regarding "possession" is concerned.
"Transportation" is in a different statute.
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I am of the opinion that you are correct insofar as the statute regarding "possession" is concerned.
"Transportation" is in a different statute.
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I understand. However what we are finding is that many PD's/DA's are bending transport into possession when MLCC licensee properties are involved. :( Hence the party line always better to error on the side of caution when OCers freedoms are on the line.
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I am of the opinion that you are correct insofar as the statute regarding "possession" is concerned.
"Transportation" is in a different statute.
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I understand. However what we are finding is that many PD's/DA's are bending transport into possession when MLCC licensee properties are involved. :( Hence the party line always better to error on the side of caution when OCers freedoms are on the line.
Can you provide any examples where this has happened? I have been searching and have not been able to find any. With the exception of one I read about a couple of years ago. A state legislator was apprehended while drunk driving and transporting weapons. He plead to the improper transportation charge and the drunk driving was dropped.
I would be very interested in reading about the transportation being viewed as possession on prohibited places in any real prosecutions as you are claiming. Sorta like the "first to get shot" urban legends.
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Pat from Q's post (#7 above) 9mmOS's advice is the current MOC "Party Line". When I tell people, I always tell them the subject is debated.
I also add they can probably find a defense attorney that says it's okay -- and I can find a DA who will prosecute you for it.
I can assure you in my ass backwards town, that the PD/DA would come at you with all their resources. I assume there may be other cities/townships that would do the same. Warren/Royal Oak/ Ferndale come to mind as a few.
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Pat from Q's post (#7 above) 9mmOS's advice is the current MOC "Party Line". When I tell people, I always tell them the subject is debated.
I also add they can probably find a defense attorney that says it's okay -- and I can find a DA who will prosecute you for it.
I can assure you in my ass backwards town, that the PD/DA would come at you with all their resources. I assume there may be other cities/townships that would do the same. Warren/Royal Oak/ Ferndale come to mind as a few.
You said that they are:"I understand. However what we are finding is that many PD's/DA's are bending transport into possession when MLCC licensee properties are involved. :( Hence the party line always better to error on the side of caution when OCers freedoms are on the line."
These are statements of pure speculation and conjecture without ANY factual basis whatsoever. Just like the Fudd CCers and the gun grab first shot claims. It has not happened in all of the years of lawful transportation. Which is decades.
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As you I can find no specific case law; you are correct & I stand corrected. It is always conjecture {or caution) until some poor bastard gets run though the ringer.
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As you I can find no specific case law; you are correct & I stand corrected. It is always conjecture {or caution) until some poor bastard gets run though the ringer.
Just like Open Carry is until some poor bastard gets shot first.
We can say that about alot of things. In fact we should not open carry because a judge HAS ruled that it is brandishing. So you should probably follow your own advice and exercise some {caution} and stop open carrying. Because there are PDs and DAs that see it as criminal. You know err on the side of {caution}.
See the slippery slope we go down when we start speculating on what may happen as opposed to what has happened over DECADES of lawful transportation?
Just sayin'.
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Short of a cop seeing you unload your gun and stick it in your trunk (why did you even have it out?), I don't see how they'd ever know. That it unless they saw you OCing a few minutes earlier, watched you unload your piece and stick it in your trunk and then followed you to Meijers (etc).
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Short of a cop seeing you unload your gun and stick it in your trunk (why did you even have it out?), I don't see how they'd ever know. That it unless they saw you OCing a few minutes earlier, watched you unload your piece and stick it in your trunk and then followed you to Meijers (etc).
Deer season comes to mind.
People in this state have been transporting firearms in parking lots of places that are licensed by the MLCC since before this was a law.
As far as I know, we have NO successful prosecutions.
I agree with Pat, it is a chicken little situation. Someone found this in the last couple years while open carry has been under a microscope by this and a couple other boards and it has become the mantra of those that wear tin foil hats.
Just as open carry is going to get you shot, a firearm in a case in the trunk will get you arrested less often then you will be struck by lightning *TWICE* in the same year.