List your Open Carry Experiences here.

[CV67PAT]

First all of you discussing LL need to go read some more as none of you have it right.

Second there is only one legal way for a person without a cpl to carry in or on the premises permission from the owner or other authorized person (and get it in writing)(including the parking lot and or other property) of a LL holding business whether they are currently selling or not.

Third there is no 50% rule or law... the MCL says "the majority of their income from the sale of booz" and only applies to places where it is sold by the glass. NOTE this only applies to people with a cpl and who are carrying concealed.

Read and learn fellows as to not understand this section is to likely visit the grey bar hotel!

Sent from my Droid Flipside using Tapatalk

Revenue... not income. Big difference here. Revenue = cash flow.  Income = profit margins.

Food revenue: $10,000
Alcohol revenue: $11,000
T-shirt sales: $5,000

Food income: $10,000 w/15% profit margin = $1,500 income
Alcohol income: $11,000 w/ 8% profit margin = $880 income
T-shirt income: $5000 w/ 80% profit margin = $4000 income

Majority of revenue generated by alcohol sales. Majority of income generated by t-shirt sales.

Law is very specific. No ambiguity in this one. When in doubt... ask the agent (the same one that would ask you to leave) if the majority of revenue is generated by alcohol sales. Some places it is obvious. Others may be less obvious. Like a Mr B's. Sometimes when I am in there it appears that it is a restaurant that serves alcohol. Other times it appears to be a bar that serves food.

Just trying to keep people out of jail also. 

[Big Gay Al]

First all of you discussing LL need to go read some more as none of you have it right.

Second there is only one legal way for a person without a cpl to carry in or on the premises permission from the owner or other authorized person (and get it in writing)(including the parking lot and or other property) of a LL holding business whether they are currently selling or not.

Third there is no 50% rule or law... the MCL says "the majority of their income from the sale of booz" and only applies to places where it is sold by the glass. NOTE this only applies to people with a cpl and who are carrying concealed.

Read and learn fellows as to not understand this section is to likely visit the grey bar hotel!

Sent from my Droid Flipside using Tapatalk

Revenue... not income. Big difference here. Revenue = cash flow.  Income = profit margins.

Food revenue: $10,000
Alcohol revenue: $11,000
T-shirt sales: $5,000

Food income: $10,000 w/15% profit margin = $1,500 income
Alcohol income: $11,000 w/ 8% profit margin = $880 income
T-shirt income: $5000 w/ 80% profit margin = $4000 income

Majority of revenue generated by alcohol sales. Majority of income generated by t-shirt sales.

Law is very specific. No ambiguity in this one. When in doubt... ask the agent (the same one that would ask you to leave) if the majority of revenue is generated by alcohol sales. Some places it is obvious. Others may be less obvious. Like a Mr B's. Sometimes when I am in there it appears that it is a restaurant that serves alcohol. Other times it appears to be a bar that serves food.

Just trying to keep people out of jail also. 

Maybe I'm wrong, but the way I see it, if they take in $10k for food, $5k for T-shirts and $11k for alcohol, that looks to me like the primary source of their income is from sales OTHER than alcohol. 

And "Income" is what the law says.

28.425o.amended Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions
to subsection (1); violation; penalties......

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where
the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises.

[CV67PAT]

Thanks BGA. My bad.

[Big Gay Al]

Thanks BGA. My bad.

Even I couldn't remember if it was income or revenue until I looked it up.

[rugersingleshot]

OC'd at Churchill's on Orchard Lake tonight after the seminar at Target Sports.  Uneventful.  Nice Padron 1924 was the highlight.

[ocdetroit]

Oc'd with my Glock 19, in a shoulder holster. I took a two mile walk around the hood, then to the local Coney. Sat down had dinner then headed home. No Problems. Stay alert, Carry On Strong.

[METL]

ever have probs. with the muzzle direction of a shoulder holster?

[CV67PAT]

Nope. I have one for my Glock. And everyone knows how unsafe they are. Never had it discharge while in my holster yet. But I know I should never say never.

Semi-OC'd everywhere i went today. Banks, stores, gas station, restaurant. Even encountered DPD at Chene and 94. Not a peep. No body ever says jack to me.

[Big Gay Al]

Well, I have a Galco Jackass holster for my Taurus PT92AFS.  I think they now call it the Miami Classic, as it was sort of made famous by that 1980's cop show, Miami Vice.  Considering the trigger and trigger guard are covered, and the hammer is down and covered by the thumb snap, I've never considered muzzle sweep to be to be a problem, unless it's in my hand, in which case the muzzle only sweeps that which I intend to shoot.

[METL]

Right...  I understand all that... but other people, or anti's might not feel that way... just wondered if anyone said stuff about it.. because I like my shoulder holster for my USPc, but don't use it for that reason.

[JoeCar]

I did have a comment/confrontation while having lunch in a Tim Horton's with my uncle, while wearing my Bianchi shoulder holster for my Beretta. An older gentleman w/wife were sitting behind me having lunch. He came over and said that he didn't appreciate looking at the barrel of my pistol while he is eating. He said that the barrel should be pointing down if I want to wear a shoulder holster. I apologized for his experience and that seemed to satisfy him. Later, I looked in the mirror and it did look intimidating to see a shiny barrel pointing back at you. Now, if wearing this, ( I have a belt holster now) I like to position the barrel against a wall.

[CV67PAT]

If you had tin to go with the holster, the guy would not have had a single problem.

And I have seen plenty of jackets removed in restaurants by LEOs wearing shoulder rigs. No one ever approaches them.

Someone was just being a ****.

I have the predecessor to the jack ass rig which I find very comfortable and very concealable for carry of my BUG. This is if I did carry a BUG. And if I did carry a BUG, I would not admit to it. (Except as required by law.) So now everyone knows I don't ever carry a BUG. Especially not a left handed one in case some one tries to snatch my semi-OC gun.

[METL]

If you had tin to go with the holster, the guy would not have had a single problem.

And I have seen plenty of jackets removed in restaurants by LEOs wearing shoulder rigs. No one ever approaches them.

Someone was just being a ****.

I have the predecessor to the jack ass rig which I find very comfortable and very concealable for carry of my BUG. This is if I did carry a BUG. And if I did carry a BUG, I would not admit to it. (Except as required by law.) So now everyone knows I don't ever carry a BUG. Especially not a left handed one in case some one tries to snatch my semi-OC gun.

I don't believe that is a good idea at all...  so therefore I completely believe you when you say that you don't carry a BUG....  especially a lefthanded one... 

Good point about the LEO... but it is obvious that no one would A.) question LEO and B.) people just assume cops are experts (and are) and that joe public is an idiot.

[Big Gay Al]

Right...  I understand all that... but other people, or anti's might not feel that way... just wondered if anyone said stuff about it.. because I like my shoulder holster for my USPc, but don't use it for that reason.

I've never had anyone question me about muzzle sweep.  I've only had questions (and stares) because I was carrying a gun to begin with.

Way back in 2003, after I first got my CPL, and was trying to get used to packing again, I had my PT92AFS in the Jackass rig.  It was Summer time, and so it was over a T-Shirt, covered by an outer shirt that was unbuttoned.  I took my family to a local ice cream place and while there, the wind blew the outer shirt all over the place.  Only one guy seemed to notice, and he was a skanky looking guy, the sort I'd be keeping my eye on, regardless where I was.  He never said a word.  He just left shortly afterward.

The only people I know who might complain about muzzle sweep, are not anti-2A types.  And even the ones who complain, should really know better anyway.  In my humble opinion that is.

[ocdetroit]

I have not had any problems carrying mine, maybe it because the gun and holster is all black. Or it's the way i carry myself, where they think i'm a LEO. Carry On.

[Master Control]

If you had tin to go with the holster, the guy would not have had a single problem.

And I have seen plenty of jackets removed in restaurants by LEOs wearing shoulder rigs. No one ever approaches them.

Someone was just being a ****.

I have the predecessor to the jack ass rig which I find very comfortable and very concealable for carry of my BUG. This is if I did carry a BUG. And if I did carry a BUG, I would not admit to it. (Except as required by law.) So now everyone knows I don't ever carry a BUG. Especially not a left handed one in case some one tries to snatch my semi-OC gun.

I don't believe that is a good idea at all...  so therefore I completely believe you when you say that you don't carry a BUG....  especially a lefthanded one... 

Good point about the LEO... but it is obvious that no one would A.) question LEO and B.) people just assume cops are experts (and are) and that joe public is an idiot.

I wouldnt consider the guy a azz****, I would not ever knowingly sit behind a guy/gal and be looking down the barrel of someone else's firearm, especially in the company of someone else.  IMO: if the firearm is NOT pointed in a safe direction, it's just NOT pointed in a safe direction! I have nothing against shoulder rigs when IMO are worn in what I feel is a responsible fashion, ( I own a couple myself) but I personally would never subject anyone to have to look down the barrel of my firearm, for me it kinda goes against everything I have taught my loved ones about firearm safety. I travel quite a bit with my three yr. old who already knows the Big Four Rules & attends OC family events. I can imagine if I were sitting behind a gentleman with a holder rig that had a firearm and was pointed straight at us, and my 3 yr old ask " Why is that gun pointed at us? thats not a safe direction". But prior to that ever happening I too would address the person (rather LEO or not) with the shoulder rig and ask them politely if they would mine securing the direction of destruction of their firearm, if they chose not, I would just move out of the line of fire/sweeping, if no more seat were available I would leave. This is NOT a attack on the above posters or ANYONE that choses to use that sort of equipment, my rigs all point down. In Closing.... for me personally I would never intentionally point or have my firearm pointed at anything that I havn't chose to destroy,,, No, I wouldnt consider the guy a AZZ****, I wasnt there, but I dont think he was trying to be one, but I can be wrong.

I am responsible for my own safety & my Love Ones;
Carry On

[JSteinmetz]

Forgot to post the other day - went to a buddy's house for dinner, ran to the small market to pick up drinks.  OC'd everywhere, only got one look when I held the door for someone (he was on my strong side, and holding the door made my holster more visible), but he didn't say anything.

[CV67PAT]

A gun in a holster is not being pointed. Duh!

As you were.

[ocdetroit]

  True dat.

[AnnieO]

How often have any of you ever seen two women open carrying by themselves...probably not very often.  But if you would have been in Michaels or JoAnn Fabrics in Shelby Township on Wednesday Afternoon you would have seen me and my mom open carrying.  Lots of bug eyed looks, but no one said anything to either of us.

We also had no incidents on our trip south when we stopped at the Flying Jay gas station off of I-75 @ the Reese exit.  And no incidents on the way back when we stopped at the McDonald's at University and Opdyke Rd.