A statement from the leadership of Michigan Open Carry on the Passage of SB 59

[Rocket8686]

I Open carry in pretty much EVERY place listed under Law now that dont allow CC.

For this to become law, its stripping my right to legally OC in such places and be forced to pay for more training in order to carry in them listed under 234d which are legal for me who is a daily Open Carrier! I will refuse to pay for another pointless class for the state/gov to get more money

[TheQ]

I Open carry in pretty much EVERY place listed under Law now that dont allow CC.

For this to become law, its stripping my right to legally OC in such places and be forced to pay for more training in order to carry in them listed under 234d which are legal for me who is a daily Open Carrier! I will refuse to pay for another pointless class for the state/gov to get more money

You didn't answer the question posted in post 40. Could you maybe answer it for me?

To clear up confusion you may have, this bill doesn't change MCL 750.234d.

[Rocket8686]

Bars, Hospitals, Schools and Stadiums I currently do go in and out of frequently open carrying under Current Law each year.

This will be not allowed once this bill passes, thus forcing me to CC and pay for a class in order to do so, to continue to OC in them places, I have to ask everyone for permission!

[TheQ]

Bars, Hospitals, Schools and Stadiums I currently do go in and out of frequently open carrying under Current Law each year.

This will be not allowed once this bill passes, thus forcing me to CC and pay for a class in order to do so, to continue to OC in them places, I have to ask everyone for permission!

Those aren't the "stores" you mentioned in post 38!

[Rocket8686]

Im not gonna make a huge list of every store i go to that i Open Carry. If they are licensed under Michigan Liquor License you cant Conceal carry in them! But I can Open carry in them. Taking that right away has no reasoning what so ever.

I also go to drag races in Michigan A LOT where attendance is over 10K people. Legally you cant Conceal carry as its over 2500 people but you can legally open carry there. I Also eat out at Taverns who serve alcohol a lot. In order to do so if passed i have to get the class training, or leave my firearm in the car!


 way the law should be is include OC into the law so it dont effect open carriers. And if people want to CC in them places then make them go pay. But to force 300k+ CPL people to take a class Is insane.

Some prefer CC or OC But dont force one over the other is not right!

[bigt8261]

This is the list that would be affected. Not 750.234d

(28.245o)
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28r2g34o552fbkwmjrhhriwx45%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-425o

[Rocket8686]

That list is no different, ad under MCL 28.425o You can currently Open Carry in them with a valid CPL.

The bill flips the law, and then makes is illegal to OC in them places unless permission is given! And then have to take another class, and pay for the upgrade of the CPL.

I dont CC, for one its uncomfortable, Damages guns finishes, And Longer draw time when in a predicament to draw. Theres plenty for OC and Plenty for CC, no need to outlaw one over the other, just add the exception for people who are die hard CC'ers and want to do as such like OC'er they take the class.

[bigt8261]

I agree with your sentiments, but the part about not OCing in places licensed under the liquor control act is not correct. That is a definition in 750.234d, not 28.425o.

Currently, and after SB59, you will be able to both CC and OC in an establishment licensed under the liquor control act with just a basic CPL, assuming the establishment does not generate more than 50% of it's income from the sale of alcohol by the glass. In that case, you can currently only OC. SB59 would change that to only CC and only with additional training.

Only trying to clarify.

[Rocket8686]

Which all in all Infringed on Our right under constitution to carry.

Makes no sense to make restrictions to OC as it is now to place CC'er at all.

Michigan needs to move up in the times and release all this crap and become Constitutional Carry State and not need CPL or PFZ.


Down the road, this bill will branch out and eventually outlaw OC all together for CPL and not CPL carriers.

[scot623]

Bars, Hospitals, Schools and Stadiums I currently do go in and out of frequently open carrying under Current Law each year.

This will be not allowed once this bill passes, thus forcing me to CC and pay for a class in order to do so, to continue to OC in them places, I have to ask everyone for permission!

If all the places you OC, bars, hospitals, school and stadiums are all friendly too you, there is NOTHING stopping you from getting permission to OC there! They've clearly welcomed you and your firearm in the past and I can't see why they wouldnt in the future. Once you get permission, this new law changes NOTHING for you!! That's a win!

Just for my curiosity, which schools, hospitals and stadiums you frequently visit are OC friendly? We haven't seen much many if any about theses places in our experiences threads.

[Rocket8686]

I have personally Open carried in McLaren Hospital in Mt.Clemens Michigan, St, Johns St. Clair County, as well as Henry Ford Urgent Care centers though out macomb County.

Stadiums I have carried in are College Campuses as in Adrian, Eastern,Central as well as Midland for drag races. All of which have no problem when i showed up. I was even Open carrying at a Tigers Game In Comerica Park this 2012 season. Fully open and visible I was granted access, and walked pass Security who just Nodded! I never asked for permission they just Took my Ticket, Seen I had it and let me through.


I have carried on other campuses when I was in College Visiting or during Sporting events. They would tell me its not permitted and to keep it locked up while on this Campus. Or if i was openly carrying and asked to leave I do so and never return to that place ever again.

[TheQ]

Im not gonna make a huge list of every store i go to that i Open Carry. If they are licensed under Michigan Liquor License you cant Conceal carry in them! But I can Open carry in them. Taking that right away has no reasoning what so ever.

Ahh!  Now we get to the bottom of your confusion maybe!  A store (let's say Meijer) is a zone that's off limits in MCL 750.234d.  They are not an MCL 28.425o zone.  MCL 750.234d is NOT changed by this legislation.  Ergo, IANAL, you'll still be able to OC at Meijer (or Walmart, or Speedway, etc.) AFTER SB 59 is signed into law.

I hope this clears up your confusion?

[TheQ]

That list is no different, ad under MCL 28.425o You can currently Open Carry in them with a valid CPL.

The list IS different!

MCL 750.234d prohibits any place that is license to sell alcohol.

MCL 28.425o prohibits any place that is a "bar or tavern whose primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic beverages by the glass"

Meijer DOES fit under the 750.234d umbrella but it ISN"T a part of the MCL 28.425o umbrella.  This is a common new person misunderstanding, no worries

You may wish to do some reading here to get a better understanding of the current laws so that way you'll better understand how the new law will impact them before you form and express further opinions.

[TheQ]

Rocket8686: Please PM me when you've had a better chance to understand the laws before you start posting and making more confusion for others

[TheQ]

To those of you who came out tonight, thank you for coming and I hope everyone who came now has a better understanding of why things were done than they understood before....even if they don't agree with it.