Armed Fed Agents and Snipers?

[jgillmanjr]

Two wrongs still don't make a right. Lets say the government uses that photo as a "reason" to do something else. What are the antis going to do or say?  I am not arguing what has happened I am arguing that the people there need to realize what can be used against them in the view of anybody who either has no clue as to what is happening or don't care. Because there are more people in this country who have no clue.

If that's the case, then we might as well just put down our firearms and let criminals kill us as well.

[gryphon]

Two wrongs still don't make a right.

Who said it was wrong?  Who said it was even illegal?  If you point your gun at a guy in 7-11 who has his gun out pointed at someone else, are you in the wrong?

You know what was wrong and illegal?  The Boston Tea Party.  The Declaration of Independence.  The American Revolution.  Those were all illegal.

Right or wrong, there is a clear message to the feds here, and it comes after the increased militarization of law enforcement and continued heavy handed abuses handed to Americans over the years. 

As I said elsewhere, this is not about Bundy, or at least it isn't about Bundy any longer. It is about the .gov now. This isn't something that was pre-planned this way by either side, but it's something that's already been set in motion. This may only be the first battle, and in the end this particular battle may be lost. People recognize that. I hesitate to reference Lexington and Concord, but it may be a prelude. Only history will tell us that.

Sometimes if you squeeze the tube hard enough, toothpaste comes out where you didn't expect it to. The .gov has been squeezing the country. This may be the first hole in the toothpaste tube, and it's mighty hard to get the toothpaste back in the tube sometimes.  Cliven Bundy said it himself in his opening remarks at a packed town hall meeting, to which he got applause: "This ain't about the Cattle."

'The Last Rancher Standing' struck a chord with a lot of people that see it as a perfect example of what they themselves experience daily -- a government that never stops getting bigger and bigger by the day. A government that spies on us. That regulates, taxes, and imposes on us. That thinks it can come in with brute force and take away whatever it decides is bad today, and we'd better just lie down and take it, because, as Hillary famously said, "What difference does it make?"  A government that can let the US Embassy in Benghazi be attacked for four hours and do nothing about it, or drug smugglers run roughshod over private as well as BLM-managed territory in the West, but God forbid that you've got some cows eating grass.  You ever see BLM sharpshooters protecting us from real dangers to our country, armed drug cartels moving drugs on BLM land?

There is supposed to be a large showing at the ranch soon.

[Xpiatio]

Thank you guys for all the updates to what is happening over in Nevada. 

[gryphon]

Report from the ground.  People are pouring in now.  More to follow.

[gryphon]

Update:

Setting up for a concert.



Rick Bundy's happy with the results.



Some of the "Domestic Terrorists" that they're considering sending a Federal Task Force against.  These are very dangerous people!



Future domestic terrorists.

[gryphon]

Update:



Jeff from Michigan,  a fellow domestic terrorist.



Ammon Bundy, helping to move the flat.

[gryphon]

Update: Only one recon flight today so far. A long slow high altitude pass by one aircraft unlike the circling scouting moves for twenty minutes at low altitude, by two separate Cessnas.

[Jeff]

Hello my name is "Domestic Terrorist" I haven't laughed so hard in a week.

[detroit_fan]

Two wrongs still don't make a right. Lets say the government uses that photo as a "reason" to do something else.

you don't think the gov't can produce their own "evidence" to "justify" a raid without one of those pics? They can make anyone look like they are doing anything, that man is meeting force with force, i applaud him.

 What are the antis going to do or say?

Who f****** cares! All of a sudden we care what anti's think? Anti's are not on our side anyways, why in the hell would we be pandering to them, do they care what we think or say?


 I am not arguing what has happened I am arguing that the people there need to realize what can be used against them in the view of anybody who either has no clue as to what is happening or don't care. Because there are more people in this country who have no clue.

[gryphon]

[gryphon]

Final report from our intrepid reporter on the ground.

+++++

Ain't it amazing that it's only 12:15 PM and it already feels like a long weekend, for some strange reason...

Got home at nearly midnight.  Damn, I was beat.  Stressed.  Pissed.  Long unexpected detours.  Late morning at the shop, looked over the project cars and came upon my decal, now a little less sticky.

They passed them out to everybody, kids, women, seniors, Oathkeepers and everybody had one.  It was funny, but at the same time it was almost like those Guy Fawkes masks were.  No need to know your name, we know each other well.  Nobody called us, we got in whatever we could get in and got there.  It wasn't convenient, it wasn't easy (It wasn't cheap!  I owned nothing to rough it).

It was actually an OK thing, that some biker pulled up alongside at 2AM in the morning and I fed him.  Followed by a Retired Aussie Cop and his wife later that morning.  Think about it.  They got on a Jumbo jet and flew an expensive, long and fatiguing flight,  that probably came to LAX,  then got a rental car an either drove or flew to Vegas.

And they weren't there yet!  It's a long remote drive through vast territory, sharp hard peaks, finishing by dropping into the Virgin River Gorge and finally into our place of gathering.   It amazed me that they came out to support the Yanks!  They know the weight of The Crown, and just voted out their 'Green' Government.

The Oakland biker got on his bike sometime Thursday night in the San Francisco Bay area and tells himself and his unhappy second wife, "I'm going to Nevada tonight", even with the threat of divorce.  He rode all night, headlight burning through the desert night, with a dirty comforter bungee strapped to his bike and he's going to sleep in the soft dirt, with just that?

Why would Aussie and Oakland just show up?  And just do it.  Didn't even give it a second thought.  Amazing, isn't it?  Then a gent pulled up on a 'Glide from New Mexico.  I picked up and handed him a flat rock for his kickstand and he appreciated the gesture.  So now we have LA County, New Mexico, Australia and Oakland, standing around and it is not even an awkward conversation, no social hesitation, nada.

I think you'd have to be in denial to admit that there's a huge unheard ground swell of unhappiness right under the surface.  We who know, know what's going on.

The Pull

I felt it, did others too?  I asked. The people I talked to all readily admitted to feeling that exact same thing, without a doubt.  No funny looks, like 'what are you talking about?'  You had to follow it.  It was scary, but weird.  It was very collective, no leadership need apply, Tea Party included.  A mass action without a command given.  Amazing, isn't it?

Inconvenience was a given.  I took a bath in the brush like a terr...  I ate hard rations and slept in the back of a Focus wagon, with my feet hanging out in the air out the back.  I made coffee on a rock I tipped  over at the bottom of the road embankment and that's where I whipped out my nice little stove that will fit in your pocket and perked me up some boiling water.  I just grabbed stuff at the Sporting Goods store and it wasn't till I got to the camp and peeled the sticker off the pot that I realized I paid $50 for that Titanium and said to myself, "Nice."

A US Senator, a Majority Leader goes on (and gets instant coverage, unlike the start of this story) and declares infamously and wearing the exact kind of sunglasses you'd want to wear coming out of a black car in Vegas, "It's Not Over."   Sinister too.  Does not like losing.  My interpretation of that is a threat, is it not?

Believe it, it became spooky late at night in that Nevada Desert with the windows wide open in your station wagon, hatchback up and looking up at the very bright moon.  You waited for the far off beat of chopper blades, building up in volume as they got closer.  Far off, the hard crunch of gravel.  It was uneasy...

Earlier that day, two Cessnas from the BLM circled and circled in slow lazy circles.  Click.  Click.  Click.  Doesn't that make you feel just, oh so secure...

Let's move on. Senior Senator then declares the next day that all his [Bundy's] supporters are "Domestic Terrorists."  Absolute top tier official, with close friends like Obama, Hillary and Nancy, loves Hillary for president, declaring that we were now full blown FBI filed 'Persons of Interest.'  Oakland, Michigan, New Hampshire, Australia, New Mexico and on and on.  Every walk of life, from law enforcement Oathkeepers to bikers and foreigners, but all of them friends, so wearing that homemade patch that bright Friday Morning, April 18th was more than wearing a little piece of paper. 

Want to hear a funny thing?  Somebody called my Shop Partner and asked him his opinions about 'planes circling around' and that he was doing an 'interview?'  My partner said rightfully that he didn't know anything about that.  Funny thing, I never gave his number out to anybody.  Isn't that amazing?

I look over my dirty car, unfurled sleeping bag, all covered in the fine talcum powder dust of the riverbed.  I look at my reflection, my four day old beard, haggard and tired look and wonder...

[TexasSupporter]

Who said it was wrong?  Who said it was even illegal?  If you point your gun at a guy in 7-11 who has his gun out pointed at someone else, are you in the wrong?

You know what was wrong and illegal?  The Boston Tea Party.  The Declaration of Independence.  The American Revolution.  Those were all illegal.

Right or wrong, there is a clear message to the feds here, and it comes after the increased militarization of law enforcement and continued heavy handed abuses handed to Americans over the years. 

As I said elsewhere, this is not about Bundy, or at least it isn't about Bundy any longer. It is about the .gov now. This isn't something that was pre-planned this way by either side, but it's something that's already been set in motion. This may only be the first battle, and in the end this particular battle may be lost. People recognize that. I hesitate to reference Lexington and Concord, but it may be a prelude. Only history will tell us that.

Sometimes if you squeeze the tube hard enough, toothpaste comes out where you didn't expect it to. The .gov has been squeezing the country. This may be the first hole in the toothpaste tube, and it's mighty hard to get the toothpaste back in the tube sometimes.  Cliven Bundy said it himself in his opening remarks at a packed town hall meeting, to which he got applause: "This ain't about the Cattle."

'The Last Rancher Standing' struck a chord with a lot of people that see it as a perfect example of what they themselves experience daily -- a government that never stops getting bigger and bigger by the day. A government that spies on us. That regulates, taxes, and imposes on us. That thinks it can come in with brute force and take away whatever it decides is bad today, and we'd better just lie down and take it, because, as Hillary famously said, "What difference does it make?"  A government that can let the US Embassy in Benghazi be attacked for four hours and do nothing about it, or drug smugglers run roughshod over private as well as BLM-managed territory in the West, but God forbid that you've got some cows eating grass.  You ever see BLM sharpshooters protecting us from real dangers to our country, armed drug cartels moving drugs on BLM land?

There is supposed to be a large showing at the ranch soon.

Hmmmm.. that was well said...

[Pond Scum]

gryphon, thank your friend for going to Nevada and taking the time to write some first hand reports.  His personal feelings and observations really pull at my heart.  We won't read anything like that in the main stream media........

[gryphon]

I know this will be TL;DR for Q, but if anyone is interested, here is a lot of background on this and similar illegal actions by the BLM in the past.  See referenced court cases. 

+++++

The Bundy case is the very definition of “government overreach.”

With Western ranchers, legally (not that the .gov cares) the BLM cannot ‘sell off rights’ to various commercial interests to build on those lands unless the likes of the Bundys sell off their generational preemptive and prescriptive usage/grazing/foraging rights. That is why they’re so eager to push the Bundys out. And why, systematically, they've already been able to push out the Bundys 52 other neighboring ranchers.

To simplify, the BLM was ‘sold’ (advertised) to the public as essentially a property manager who were paid by the apartment complex owners to manage the property. Yet, they used the management fees amassed over the years to buy off the properties, to kick them out, with full assumed right to change the original employer-employee-for-hire contract on the fly, then to flipping it, where the employee-for-hire, is now dictating to the lawful property owner what the new terms are and will be.

As Marbury v. Madison re-affirms, unconstitutional laws aren't laws at all:

Thus, the particular phraseology of the Constitution of the United States confirms and strengthens the principle, supposed to be essential to all written Constitutions, that a law repugnant to the Constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument.

So, even with a distinct shift to more centralization post-1864 Lincoln antebellum south, with corrupt statists in govt, the Federal govt, under the Enclave Clause, within Article I, Section 8 of explicitly limited enumerated powers, except for Washington D.C. and U.S. territories, along with federal government buildings founded for constitutional functions, the federal government cannot own any land or property, period.

The BLM, and the federal government as a whole, is acting no differently than a deluded secretary who, after working for the CEO and managing his schedule for decades, starts telling everyone that she owns the company herself, believes it, and worse--acts on it.

Property ownership is strictly reserved to the People, and the States, as per the 9th and 10th Amendment's guarantees and affirmations, regardless of what a guild of delusional secretaries claim to have the ‘right’ to own the company, repeated, perpetually: Article I, Section 8. of the Constitution for the United States of America.

Like the gun debate, the particulars of the Western ranching laws are really only familiar to those who are interested in the subject matter, or bothered to look into it, or grew up around it.

Here’s a similar case just last year of another NV rancher, E. Wayne Hage, in which the residing Federal Judge, not a Nevada State judge, stated explicitly that the local, state, federal governemnt/BLM “entered into…a literal, intentional conspiracy, to deprive” the rancher of his rights!

Judge Blasts Federal Conspiracy; Ranch Family Vindicated — Again!
Written by William F. Jasper
Monday, 19 November 2012 00:00

“So I’m finding and concluding as a matter of law,” said the judge, “that the government and the agents of the government in that locale, sometime in the ’70s and ’80s, entered into a conspiracy, a literal, intentional conspiracy, to deprive the Hages of not only their permit grazing rights, for whatever reason, but also to deprive them of their vested property rights under the takings clause, and I find that that’s a sufficient basis to hold that there is irreparable harm if I don’t — and it’s in the public interest, if I don’t restrain the government from continuing in that conduct.”

Federal Judge Rules for Property Rights, Smacks Down Abusive Feds
Written by William F. Jasper
Monday, 03 June 2013 16:06

In an historic 104-page ruling, Chief Judge Robert C. Jones of the Federal District Court of Nevada has struck a major blow for property rights and, at the same time, has smacked down federal agencies that have been riding roughshod over Western ranchers and property owners. The long-awaited ruling, which had been expected before the end of last year, was finally issued at the end of May. The court case, U.S. v. Hage, has been keenly watched by legal analysts and constitutional scholars — but has been completely ignored by the major media.

Government’s Shocking Interference in Rancher’s Life
Hans von Spakovsky
June 11, 2013 at 1:30 pm

A startling decision on government wrongdoing by a federal court in U.S. v. Estate of E. Wayne Hage gives credence to those who say that the federal government is engaging in a “war on the West” that is hurting rural communities. It is a stark reminder of how powerful our federal government is today and how it can ruin the lives and businesses of American citizens.

The 104-page opinion by U.S. District Court Judge Robert C. Jones on May 23 in Nevada tells a sordid and infuriating tale of a two-decades-long conspiracy among federal employees of the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) of the Department of the Interior to deny the grazing rights of a Nevada ranching family, interfere with their water rights, and destroy their cattle business by scaring away their customers.

The case has long, complicated procedural history, but in essence, the federal government in 1991 refused to renew a grazing permit that the Hage ranch had held on federal lands for a very long time. The government also interfered with the Hage family’s water rights, which pre-dated the implementation of the grazing permit system in 1934, by restricting their access to various streams and wells. The BLM seized the Hages’ cattle and filed a civil trespass action against Hage, at one point even building fences around waterways to keep thirsty cattle from getting water, a scene right out of a 1930s Western movie.

When the BLM was there last week, federal agents destroyed much of the grazing infrastructure on the land, including water lines, water tanks, troughs, corrals, and fences.  But they didn't stop there. Federal agents killed about 40 head of cattle including some within pens, and threw many into a mass grave.

Some more reading for y'all:

Fellow rancher’s viral letter explains so much about why ranchers support ‘hero’ Bundy
excerpts:

In the early 90s, the BLM went on a frenzy and drastically cut almost every rancher’s permit because of this desert tortoise issue, even though all of us ranchers knew that cow and desert tortoise had co-existed for a hundred+ years. As an example, a family friend had his permit cut by 90%. For those of you who are non-ranchers, that would be equated to getting your paycheck cut 90%.

Clive Bundy was one of these people who received extremely unfair and unreasonable TERMS AND CONDITIONS. Keep in mind that Mr. Bundy was required to sign this contract before he was allowed to pay. Had Clive signed on the dotted line, he would have, in essence, signed his very livelihood away. And so Mr. Bundy took a stand, not only for himself, but for all of us. He refused to be destroyed by a tyrannical federal entity and to have his American liberties and freedoms taken away. Also keep in mind that all ranchers financially paid dearly for the forage rights those permits allow – – not rights to the land, but rights to use the forage that grows on that land. Many of these AUMS are water based, meaning that the rancher also has a vested right (state owned, not federal) to the waters that adjoin the lands and allow the livestock to drink. These water rights were also purchased at a great price.

If a rancher cannot show beneficial use of the water (he must have the appropriate number of livestock that drinks and uses that water), then he loses that water right. Usually water rights and forage rights go hand in hand. Contrary to what the BLM is telling you, they NEVER compensate a rancher for the AUMs they take away. Most times, they tell ranchers that their AUMS are “suspended,” but not removed. Unfortunately, my family has thousands of “suspended” AUMs that will probably never be returned. And so, even though these ranchers throughout the course of a hundred years invested thousands(and perhaps millions) of dollars and sacrificed along the way to obtain these rights through purchase from others, at a whim the government can take everything away with the stroke of a pen. This is the very thing that Clive Bundy singlehandedly took a stand against.

Ranchers vs. Regulators: The Clark County Range War
Did BLM Bury Bundy Cattle In Mass Grave? WARNING, GRAPHIC IMAGES
RED CANYON SHEEP CO. et al. v. ICKES, Secretary of Interior, et al.

If anyone actually reads through the BLM and other govt documents linked in the following, one would literally have to be naive, and political reality-clueless, to NOT think that Harry Reid has personal stake, in the outcome of the Bundy's case.

The BLM Impoundment Plan, Who Prepared It, and Their Scrubbed Contact Information
Thu, 04/17/2014

Oh, just in case some of y’all may not have noticed, yes, Harry Reid is one dirty politician.

Indicted Businessman Names Harry Reid as Alleged Recipient of Massive Bribe
Posted on 17 April, 2014

Utah A.G. tied to alleged scheme
Embattled St. George businessman Jeremy Johnson says new Utah Attorney General John Swallow helped broker a deal in 2010 in which Johnson believed he was to pay Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid $600,000 to make a federal investigation into Johnson's company go away.

Obama Accused By Congressman Of Illegal Action At Bundy Ranch
He cites a severe violation of U.S. Code — 43 U.S.C. Section 1733, Subsection C
B. Christopher Agee — April 18, 2014


BUNDY RANCH | You saw his proof. Now meet BLM Whistleblower Rusty Hill who uncovered the corporations and shady land deals connected to Reid Bunkerville LLC, Zion Bank Corp, and BLM lands surrounding the Bundy properties.

[TheQ]

My prediction: the Feds wait until everyone gets bored, goes back home to their jobs (most people have to at some point), then the Feds roll in the tanks....

[SD40VE]

My prediction: the Feds wait until everyone gets bored, goes back home to their jobs (most people have to at some point), then the Feds roll in the tanks....

very possible

[gryphon]

[jgillmanjr]

http://www.westernjournalism.com/footage-bundy-massacre/

URL is kind of misleading - no actual massacre.

[gryphon]

This is pretty good.

[m.marino]

My prediction: the Feds wait until everyone gets bored, goes back home to their jobs (most people have to at some point), then the Feds roll in the tanks....

That might work except that you have OK having put out a request for volunteers to help set up a rota at the Bundy ranch and other groups are also working with member to be able to maintain a constant rota at the ranch as well as a few other sites that are hot issues. That combined with Senator Reid's rather open threat at those who are supporting the Bundy family. Combined with more and more information being put out that this is not a one off, but a continuing issues of federal abuse and things most likely will get a good bit hotter before it is resolved.

I personally, hope that the up coming elections can help change things towards a more constructive restoring of the proper balance of rule of law (constitutional law, not strong arm thuggery, nor progressive left wing agendas).  I hope but in all honesty don't see it happening considering the continued use of electronic voting in many states.