My problems with Lansing refusing to issue a Purchase Permit

[lil_freak_66]

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=99893

Our trade is pending,Lansing doesnt want to give me a purchase permit,they even told me i passed the background check,but they still want to do further research...if i dont get it by the middle of next week im getting my lawyer involved,that will have given them 3 weeks total for they're "research"

I also got my civil infraction for failure to turn in handgun registration dismissed,turns out that the ticket was never filed in,and my registration "just turned up"

[autosurgeon]

They are jerkin your ... well if I said what they are jerkin it would break the rules... but you get my drift!

Also I would ask for pictures and ask how it is a .380 when the Russians never made the Makarov in .380 and in order to change it the barrel would have to be pressed out?

[lil_freak_66]

Concerns noted.

I honestly dont care what it is as long as it is over .35 and goes boom every time i want it to,accuracy is another thing i need.

[autosurgeon]

Well if it is indeed a decent Makarov it will be accurate and I feel it is plenty good as a carry caliber. 2 of the three guns I was carrying on Saturday are chambered in 9mm Mak.

[lil_freak_66]

http://tristatetraderspost.finddiscussion.com/guns-only-f1/makarov-380-t115.htm

well is that a makarov?i havent done much research,i cant exactly pick and choose what handguns i acquire

[autosurgeon]

Ah it has the aftermarket Mak barrel that is no longer made. Just did some research and found that the importers did this back when there was little 9x18 available in the states!

You could convert it back if you wanted too...

Looks like a nice gun!

[lil_freak_66]

Around here,i see more .380 than 9x18 so i doubt i would switch.

Just to get Lansing to get me my permit now.

They are acting like they are may issue rather than shall issue,and i feel them making me wait for the reasons they have given me(needing "further research to look at some police reports") is unlawful,considering i passed the background check and have no disqualifying offenses pending.

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

LPD & PP hold.

This is technically illegal see sec. 28 of the firearms law. BUT they wiggle around this with "made up law" like: "research" etc...officially they are supposed to enter a order of disposition into the LEIN system which automatically generates a flag & sets up a hearing with the MSP & the entering PD & you. Since they know they are breaking the law they "cheat" by using these never ending stall tactics. You may very well have to get a lawyer involved & that's what the (LPD) figure most people won't do because of the costs; they just give up and that's what the cops (some anyways) want, another "sheeple" to push around.

[lil_freak_66]

Hopefully i can get down there tomorrow morning before i go small game hunting, to demand my permit,or a written statement as to why i am being denied,and under what authority they are denying me,ill likely be recording video and audio as well.
Also have to drop off a damaged property claim form for the damage they did to my 10/22 awhile back.

Anyone care to go with me?

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

Wish you were closer, sorry Tyler. If at all possible you want to take as many witnesses as possible & multiple cameras. You may want to wait until you get back from hunting so you can organize this. Just an idea here - several days before you go call the mayors office and tell them that you will be filming this encounter and you will be making the video available to the mayors opponent if the permit is denied, so they can use it to demonstrate how little control this mayor has over Lansing police & how could he be trusted with the armed forces of the entire state. I bet you have no issues getting your permit when you show up. Often in life timing is everything.

[lil_freak_66]

Im going to try nicely again in the morning,video recorder in hand.

If they dont give it to me,with a good,legal reason why i am being denird then i will organize something,everyone has to remember that the Lansing Police dept. HQ is a complete PFZ and cannot carry in there,but holsters are fine.

If they do anything badly in the morning,Ill get on the porcupine line so that there is a secure recording of anything that goes on.

[emt805]

Is a Police dept not public property? After all are we not the ones that pay their wages each week?

[TheQ]

Is a Police dept not public property? After all are we not the ones that pay their wages each week?

Downtown presinct is in a courthouse. No carry, period.

[emt805]

Is a Police dept not public property? After all are we not the ones that pay their wages each week?

Downtown presinct is in a courthouse. No carry, period.

How is a court house diff than any other place listed in Section 750.234d
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kh5ll2454vyluguhmcjqwrqj))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-234d

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.

Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


History: Add. 1990, Act 321, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991 ;-- Am. 1992, Act 218, Imd. Eff. Oct. 13, 1992 ;-- Am. 1994, Act 158, Eff. Aug. 15, 1994


Also stated here AG opinion
http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10188.htm

[onnie0047@gmail.com]

Here is a exert from
FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN
Compiled by the Legislative Service Bureau
Pursuant to Act 381 of the Public Acts of 2000
March 2009
FOUND ON PAGE 243 of that document...

"An examination of the Michigan laws dealing with the possession of firearms discloses several additional instances where the prohibition of firearms is “otherwise provided by law.” Among these is 2001 PA 225, MCL 259.80f, effective April 1, 2002,which prohibits the possession of a firearm in the “sterile” (i.e., secure) area of a commercial airport. In addition, the Michigan Supreme Court, in Administrative Order 2001-3, 464 Mich 1xxv, has, with certain exceptions, prohibited the possession of a weapon in any courtroom or facility used for official business of the court. A person violating the order may be held in contempt of court."

I read this as ANY part of ANY courthouse or building can be made off limits for weapons if its used in any way for the official business of the court. 

now it also says "With Certain Exceptions" and I am sure that at best would be limited to police and the like.



I am no expert but it seems clear, taking a weapon into any building doing OFFICIAL COURT BUSINESS is going to get you in trouble!

[autosurgeon]

The reason a courthouse is Diff is BC the Supreme Court of MI made it different through an administrative order. It has nothing to do with the law cited as they went above the law and made their own judicial ruling. However they did give the local Chief Judge the ability to apply it or not as they see fit. Which is why we have Hillsdale county where you can carry everywhere in the courthouse except the courtrooms.

[emt805]

Here is a exert from
FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN
Compiled by the Legislative Service Bureau
Pursuant to Act 381 of the Public Acts of 2000
March 2009
FOUND ON PAGE 243 of that document...

"An examination of the Michigan laws dealing with the possession of firearms discloses several additional instances where the prohibition of firearms is “otherwise provided by law.” Among these is 2001 PA 225, MCL 259.80f, effective April 1, 2002,which prohibits the possession of a firearm in the “sterile” (i.e., secure) area of a commercial airport. In addition, the Michigan Supreme Court, in Administrative Order 2001-3, 464 Mich 1xxv, has, with certain exceptions, prohibited the possession of a weapon in any courtroom or facility used for official business of the court. A person violating the order may be held in contempt of court."

Has anyone seen what those include? I am not able to find them.

I just read michigan firearm laws may 2006 and could not find anything that with a cpl you are not allowed to oc in a court, what am I missing?
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/531895/Firearms

[onnie0047@gmail.com]

here is where i found it

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

[lil_freak_66]

Me and TheQ stopped in today to check on my permit "they are still working on it" refusing to give a time estimate,or a real reason why i am being denied/being held.
We were escorted out of the building and told not to come back to check on my permit,and that they will get ahold of me.

They also told me they would get ahold of me within 7 days...but that was 20 days ago.

(they basically told me to f*ck off in a nice way)

Recorded the conversation,but cannot figure out how to convert the files.

[TheQ]

We were escorted out of the building and told not to come back to check on my permit,and that they will get ahold of me.

"Don't call us, we'll call you", was the general feeling I got.