Open Carry in vehicle

[Falconfxr]

Good afternoon, I was wondering if there is any reason why the state of Michigan does not have the policy that Georgia has with allowing open carry in a vehicle. They consider that an extension on your homestead and as long as the firearm is out in the open and can be seen. Thank you very much,
Jevan Bogosian

[TheQ]

Short answer: Gov Snyder is about as anti-gun as a Republican can get. If he was pro-gun, MI would be a constitution carry state by now.


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[Falconfxr]

Thanks for the reply Phil.It just would be a lot easier if they would let that happen, its a pain to go from the trunk to holster, and vice-versa.

[TheQ]

Thanks for the reply Phil.It just would be a lot easier if they would let that happen, its a pain to go from the trunk to holster, and vice-versa.

Are you 21+?

[Falconfxr]

Answer to that is yes, I am 43.

[TheQ]

Answer to that is yes, I am 43.

Why not get a CPL?


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[Falconfxr]

That is in the works.

[bigt8261]

Any idea if the OC/CC distinction is still irrelevant in a vehicle when it comes to BAC?

[linux203]

750.227c prohibits possession of a firearm in a vehicle, except as permitted by law.

750.231a(1)(a) permits possession in a vehicle with a CPL

750.231a(1)(e) permits unloaded, cased transport in the trunk.

28.425k(2) references a only concealed pistol with a BAC.

28.425k(3)(a) is similar wording to 750.231a(1)(e) to allow transport when you have a BAC.

Does 750.231a, where you are permitted to posses a firearm in a vehicle, have an exception for BAC. No. But, there is a huge grey area that I would not want to be a test case for.

[TheQ]

Any idea if the OC/CC distinction is still irrelevant in a vehicle when it comes to BAC?

Simple answer is: don't drink and carry.  I'll stick by that answer.  You may be able to get by with .08 BAC while carrying in a vehicle.  I'm confident you'll have to take the case at least to the Court of Appeals.  I'm confident it will cost you lots of $.  I'm fairly certain you may lose.

[bigt8261]

Simple answer is: don't drink and carry.

Completely agree. I should state that my question was purely theoretical/for information purposes.

You may be able to get by with .08 BAC while carrying in a vehicle.  I'm confident you'll have to take the case at least to the Court of Appeals.  I'm confident it will cost you lots of $.  I'm fairly certain you may lose.

About what I expected. Thanks.

I guess to me it comes down to whether or not there really is such a thing a OC in a vehicle at this point. I know that the question is normally answered in terms of the functional difference if you have a CPL, which there is none, but the BAC question made me think.

[TheQ]

Applicable Statute for this question is MCL 28.425k

(emphasis added)
 

(2) An individual shall not carry a concealed pistol or portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology while he or she is under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or while having a bodily alcohol content prohibited under this section. An individual who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:

(a) If the person was under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled substance, or had a bodily alcohol content of .10 or more grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or $100.00, or both. The court shall order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to permanently revoke the license. The concealed weapon licensing board shall permanently revoke the license as ordered by the court.

(b) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .08 or more but less than .10 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or $100.00, or both. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to revoke the license for not more than 3 years. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court.

(c) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .02 or more but less than .08 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual the license to revoke the license for 1 year. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court. The court shall notify the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol if an individual is found responsible for a subsequent violation of this subdivision.

Tom refers to the fact that a pistol carried "openly" in your car isn't technically concealed under MCL 750.227 but rather "carried otherwise" (still a felony under MCL 750.227 -- emphasis added below)

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

I would predict a question of fact would be presented to a jury.  Question 1: Was the pistol carried concealed? Question 2: Did the person have a BAC of .02 or more?

I suspect the fine technical distinction of "carried otherwise" would be lost on a jury (it's lost on many lawyers -- as we saw on Facebook last night) and you'd hang.

[jfmi87]

Any idea if the OC/CC distinction is still irrelevant in a vehicle when it comes to BAC?

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10961--,00.html

You won't be in violation of the CPL act if it is in the trunk & locked. That doesn't mean that you can't get a DUI conviction if you're driving, and lose your CPL any way because of that. Simply don't drink and carry / drive.