IWB and gun size

[CitizensHaveRights]

I know the official views of MOC seem to be that IWB is probably legal but don't bet your freedom on it, it's just not worth it.

Anyway, I'm not trolling, I've got a serious related question to discuss:
Isn't the OC/CC nature of IWB/outside of shirt carry somewhat dependent on which gun you chose?

I mean, isn't there a difference between carrying a black LCP 380 IWB in black pants and black t-shirt (I think that's begging a jury to conclude "I can't readily see that") and carrying a full size 1911 IWB against a contrasting shirt?

Imagine moving Pond Scum's stainless American Classic into his pants so only the part above the belt shows.
IMO, you've got to be legally blind or perjuring dishonest to claim that wouldn't be plain view.




Now imagine a black 1911, preferably with nonblack grips (I'm thinking double diamond pattern cocobolo, mainly because I have some). Less visible than the stainless gun, but I'm thinking still a fairly safe bet that you can convince a jury they aren't certain beyond all reasonable doubt that it isn't in plain sight. Maybe less safe to bet any given cop will like it, but I still think he's got to be badge-heavy to do more than point out you're running a risk if your shirt covers it.

I'll let Vice President Tom model this one. Please imagine moving his rig into his pants so only the part above the belt shows.
What do you think? Good enough as described, might want red/orange grips to be absolutely sure, or IWB is never good enough because half the gun is inside your clothing?

[TheQ]

The standard used at trial will be: would an untrained observer readily be able to tell that you were carrying a firearm?

This is a question of fact that will be presented to a jury. This means you will have to go through a trial if you are charged. This means you will spend several thousand dollars on a lawyer.

We give people "the safer course of action"

[CitizensHaveRights]

Phillip, are you saying that we shouldn't discuss the relative riskiness of a possibly risky behavior in this forum and should end the thread here?

If so, no argument from me, I'll just ask Tom for permission to take the top half of his picture to the Eaton County Prostituting (oops, Sauter is a judge now, no thanks to our governor, and I don't know Lloyd well enough to call him that) Prosecuting Attorney and try to get a locally binding opinion from his office.

[SD40VE]

i think we can discuss, its part of the MOC seminar. where they show a IWB holster and determine thats not considered OC due to partly being inside of the pants. i feel its a better safe than sorry kind of thing. i prefer OWB because i dont want to have to run the risk of a cop being a doucher and charging me with something i didnt do. with a cpl it wont matter depending on where you are. if you are oc in a CC pfz. thats a different story

[CitizensHaveRights]

BTW, how many people regularly or EDC without CPL?

I'd only do it for political purposes, because if I do it enough to become comfortable with it, I know I'll eventually sit down in a car without disarming, it's just a matter of time. I'd have to decide whether I want to buy a special holster just for OC, if I can't use a comfortable IWB holster and call it OC by tucking my shirt behind it.

I'll get my CPL this fall and then it won't be an issue. Worth it to me just to avoid doing the car trunk dance twice for every place I carry.

[SD40VE]

i OC'ed for a couple years without a CPL. no LEO encounters. well the few who did notice didnt mention the gun or ask any questions about it. just more of a hey hows it going,..good and you?.... nice weather... etc. never got "interrogated or had to give any personal info which they cant make me do anyways.

i got my CPL just for transport purposes. i OC all the. i rarely CC. i prefer oc over cc.

[CitizensHaveRights]

i OC'ed for a couple years without a CPL. no LEO encounters.

Did you have any "oh, crap, I forgot to take my EDC gun off" moments in "no-carry" areas like your car?

I have become the sort of guy who can go to my parents' house because my mom asked me to bring something, without remembering to take the thing I was going there to give her.

never got "interrogated or had to give any personal info which they cant make me do anyways.

Absent "reasonable suspicion" as outlined in Terry v Ohio (Terry stop)?

[TucTom]

I carried as a non resident with my CPL from Az. for what seemed like months but couldn't have been because I was required to become a resident within 30 days. Then OC'd as a resident w/o CPL for a few months. I was more worried about messing up on the retrieve or put away part than I ever have been while carrying. Never forgot because I  didn't want to go through legal hassle.

[SD40VE]

Did you have any "oh, crap, I forgot to take my EDC gun off" moments in "no-carry" areas like your car?

I have become the sort of guy who can go to my parents' house because my mom asked me to bring something, without remembering to take the thing I was going there to give her.


Absent "reasonable suspicion" as outlined in Terry v Ohio (Terry stop)?

nope, i knew i cant have my gun loaded in my truck therefore i never forgot to pack up before getting into my vehicle. i would just use the tailgate to pack it up and put in the back when i had the cap on, then lock the back, since taking the cap off i would have to put the case behind the nech seat as that was the most "not easily accessible" place

and yes they had no reason to dig for info as i was not comitting crime, hadnt comitted a crime, or was under suspicion of committing a crime

[Pond Scum]

I have a nice leather IWB holster for my 1911's and I have used it quite a bit .... usually with my light weight S&W 1911 SC Commander size but also with the Commander full weight shown in the picture.   Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of it and I don't have  the holster with me or I would post a picture of it.

I used to use primarily use IWB holsters for when I CC.  My choice is that when I OC I use a OWB holster with retention.  I have started to use OWB retention holsters a lot when I CC because they are more comfortable and because if your gun shows when CC'ing there is no "offense" and I don't care if someone sees it. 

[CitizensHaveRights]

You find it more uncomfortable to have a 1911's slide in your pants than to have one sticking out?
What IWB do you have? Is it only for Commander, or will it take a full length slide?

I left Shannon Caldwell a message earlier today, I'd been thinking about buying one of his Missouri Slim holsters. (which was the reason I started this thread)

[linux203]

My choice is that when I OC I use a OWB holster with retention.  I have started to use OWB retention holsters a lot when I CC because they are more comfortable and because if your gun shows when CC'ing there is no "offense" and I don't care if someone sees it.

+1 for comfort.  I also like the consistency of draw.